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I played back in 7th and they were terrors. The rule was always take 2.

Now I am hearing that they aren't worth their points and don't get work done any more.

However, 1d4Chan seems to think they are good. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chaos_Space_Marines(8E)

So what does DakkaDakka say?

They're still good. 1d4chan is one of the worst places to get any advice from and I recommend everyone stay away from it for that reason.

They're a distraction carnifex. You're paying 215 points for something that won't kill anything important but LOOKS like it can, and will therefore absorb a lot of lascannon shots.

They are basically a Scalpel

They don't have the raw efficiency to kill hard targets
Neither large infantry numbers, nor tanks.

Their strongest aspect is their mobility.

Use them to hunt down exposed characters and softer specialist units.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're still good. 1d4chan is one of the worst places to get any advice from and I recommend everyone stay away from it for that reason.

What's so bad about them? Most of their tacticas agree with the common consensus I see on this forum.

So I bought 2 right when 8th came out.

Should I have stuck with 1?

Audustum wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're still good. 1d4chan is one of the worst places to get any advice from and I recommend everyone stay away from it for that reason.

What's so bad about them? Most of their tacticas agree with the common consensus I see on this forum.

It isn't. I haven't seen any of their 8th edition stuff, but a quick glance at their 7th edition section off my memory will say things like:
1. Rubric Marines aren't terrible and Warp Talons had cool combos
2. Tactical Marines are your bread and butter, and Gladius could be impractical
3. Scatterbikes aren't that terrible and that Eldar are a hard army to play
4. They fething compared the Defiler to the Doomsday Ark. Ya know, two units that aren't even close in function to each other.

It's the little things like that. It's a bad site outside getting some meh summaries of fluff.

drakes simply cant kill anything, they have a tie up role mostly, tarp some heavy weapons force them to fall back and shoot at -1, scratch away some woinds from veichles or just hit some soft units, you cant expect they deal tons of damage, too few attacks too few ap, i played 2 in a list now just one and i guess i will take it out as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're still good. 1d4chan is one of the worst places to get any advice from and I recommend everyone stay away from it for that reason.

What's so bad about them? Most of their tacticas agree with the common consensus I see on this forum.

It isn't. I haven't seen any of their 8th edition stuff, but a quick glance at their 7th edition section off my memory will say things like:
1. Rubric Marines aren't terrible and Warp Talons had cool combos
2. Tactical Marines are your bread and butter, and Gladius could be impractical
3. Scatterbikes aren't that terrible and that Eldar are a hard army to play
4. They fething compared the Defiler to the Doomsday Ark. Ya know, two units that aren't even close in function to each other.

It's the little things like that. It's a bad site outside getting some meh summaries of fluff.

I would agree their summaries of 1 and 3 are right, dunno about the other 2.

I've played them a few times and they've always done quite well for themselves. you really need to target the 2 wound models to get the best mileage out of them IMO, any lower and you're wasting wound potential, any higher and you should be using auto cannons or lascannons for better bang in your buck. Terminators are a pretty good target but they can still hold out pretty well despite -2AP. any Primaris infantry are like dog treats for these guys as it's same rolls as killing marines but the 2 damage actually means something. close combat wise it serves a job but just doesn't have the right amount of killing power to amount to much, although if you REALLY want to make sure that Primaris squad bites the dust after being flamed, it's definitely an option.

Helldrakes are theoretically great in daemon swarm armies due to there abilities to nearly always get a first turn charge. This allowa them the tie up anti infantry squads in cqc giving your a precious free turn of two of movement Which is invaluable even if they choose to pull back unless they are flying they can't shot your horde anyway.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're still good. 1d4chan is one of the worst places to get any advice from and I recommend everyone stay away from it for that reason.

What's so bad about them? Most of their tacticas agree with the common consensus I see on this forum.

It isn't. I haven't seen any of their 8th edition stuff, but a quick glance at their 7th edition section off my memory will say things like:
1. Rubric Marines aren't terrible and Warp Talons had cool combos
2. Tactical Marines are your bread and butter, and Gladius could be impractical
3. Scatterbikes aren't that terrible and that Eldar are a hard army to play
4. They fething compared the Defiler to the Doomsday Ark. Ya know, two units that aren't even close in function to each other.

It's the little things like that. It's a bad site outside getting some meh summaries of fluff.

It gets updated, I imagine most of the units will eventually be right, in 7th it took months for all the pages to be mostly accurate and that did not entail new rules for everybody. Once codex was released 14dchan settled into a pretty decent source of data about 3 months into a codex release where people with a decent amount of games in were providing feedback and editing. I imagine this will be the case for the 8th release. Probably worth reading to get a few opinions but only use it as a rough source of data for now. in 3-4 months they will probably reflect reality and be a mostly reliable source of data. its biggest issue is any dick tom or harry can modify it so you will get edits that reflect like above so that somebody can screen cap and quote their own opinion as a reliable source. "see scatterbikes are not overpowered it says so right here"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're still good. 1d4chan is one of the worst places to get any advice from and I recommend everyone stay away from it for that reason.

Better than some Dakka posters.

Martel732 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're still good. 1d4chan is one of the worst places to get any advice from and I recommend everyone stay away from it for that reason.

Better than some Dakka posters.

Which is why we make sure we prove those posters incompetent.

Heldrakes are pretty decent for what they do, which ranges from nothing to being a distraction to being absolutely destructive. It depends mostly on your opponent. My Heldrake I bring sometimes always gets focused but survives the first volley by the skin of its teeth and then rains helfire down on stuff, sometimes doing no damage and sometimes doing a ton of damage. Throughout the games it has consistently done enough to be worth its points but the Baleflamer could use a point decrease by 10-15 points which would make it an auto-include in my list.

I think ideally you need to threat-overload, so maybe running two or three (to fill the fliers detachment) is correct.