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I've posted versions of this list before but having tested numerous things I'd like to post the, for now, finalized version and see if I can get some thoughts on it. This list is purely meant as a competitive force and should only be evaluated as such.

Zhadsnark Da Ripper (Warlord w/ +1 Attack)
Warboss on Warbike w/ Big Choppa and Attack Squig
Warboss on Warbike w/ Big Choppa and Attack Squig
Big Mek on Warbike w/ KFF
Big Mek on Warbike w/ KFF
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy

14 Gretchin
29 Shoota Boyz and Big Choppa Nob
29 Shoota Boyz and Big Choppa Nob
29 Choppa Boyz and Big Choppa Nob
29 Choppa Boyz and Big Choppa Nob
29 Choppa Boyz and Big Choppa Nob
29 Choppa Boyz and Big Choppa Nob

Overall the list is fairly simple, it's a lot of Boyz and the primary goal is to outlast most armies. Spamming T4 bodies with 5++ Saves is extremely good against all guns in the game and heavily punishes dedicated anti-tank units, forcing an opponent into a situation where you can ignore some of their army. All the Boyz are barebones, Special Weapons have never panned out other than Big Shootas in Da Jump units but even those aren't great enough to get excited about. I'll go into some detail starting from the top though.

Zhadsnark is the only thing Orks got from FW so we might as well use him. He's an excellent Overwatch absorber and anti-tank option since he has a huge threat range and puts out 6 PK attacks (with Warlord Trait) on the Charge, hitting on 2's and denying Saves from almost everything. Both of those are his roles throughout the game with the other Warbosses being more on Waaagh! duty. I declined PKs on the other Warbosses, honestly the math on them is bad with the lower attacks and hitting on 3's. Big Choppas are the same in every way except the AP and against T8 targets and as I said these Warbosses are primarily Overwatch and Waaagh! duty so their damage output is secondary.

Big Meks are for the 5++ as I advance, this hugely changes the math on the army and is mandatory for Green Tide. They're on Bikes, as are the Warbosses, so they can keep up since otherwise poor Advance rolls really hinder the army. Bikes also make the Characters much more durable against Psychic Powers and Snipers, both of which are effective against Orks since we are a Character reliant Faction without the defensive options of Space Marines and IG. Mid/Late game the Big Meks just tie stuff up, which is actually extremely valuable and is helped further by the Warbikes.

I've experimented with various amounts of Weirdboys, from 1 to 8, and 5 feels pretty good on paper. Originally I had 4 and Mad Doc Grotsnik, which may be correct, however in practice the healing and 6++ against Mortal Wounds didn't help much. This is something I have to continue experimenting with though and is the largest point of contention with the army. In any case the Weirdboys are in for Smite, pretty much the only Ork viable anti-armor, and they're potent combatants as well. Orks are among the best Smite armies with our casting bonuses which can be tweaked as needed, although Weirdboys are very vulnerable to Character sniping. It remains to be seen how prevalent this is, my guess is not very since Snipers are almost all over-priced and almost all super vulnerable/static. While Smite is easily countered by many things, 8th Edition has not yet matured to the point where people are taking screens as they should and such a meta favors Orks anyways since we love to see chaff. Without chaff Smite is extremely potent, particularly against Fliers which are our bane.

Troops are all straight forward, I've taken to two Shoota Boyz units lately. Over many games I found that I would usually Da Jump one unit in Turn 1 or 2 and then go up front with the rest of my army but one unit would always be left out of the melee and have nothing to do. Shootas help that a bit for some Combat sacrifice, this may change back to 1 Shoota/5 Choppa as I play against more and more optimized lists. Shootas are also ideal Da Jump targets, which I have plenty of. I'm also favoring one unit of Gretchin as either an Objective camper or a screen. Warbosses can perform the same role as a Runtherd for them, making Runthers worthless, and they also benefit from the KFF which is hilarious. This is primarily powerful against other combat armies with larger threat ranges, such as Tyranids, as otherwise I'd be forced to put a ring around my army with one of my Boyz units and toss them away.

========================================================================

I think the easiest change to this list is swapping one Weirdboy for Mad Doc Grotsnik, there's pros and cons to this. I'd get a 6++ over some of my army, about half, and a very minor save/heal for my Characters. Grotsnik also has a good PK and can do some really cute Withdraw shenanigans, although they aren't often applicable. He's also a better Overwatch absorber, although I do have many. The Weirdboy is a decent fighter, squishier, but helps a bit more versus armor in many situations. Losing the Weirdboy would also only leave me with three in many situations because Da Jump is often required to win and would also weaken my screen in terms of model count.

Other than that I don't think there are many changes to make, but that's why I'm posting here. Orks work best with progressive scoring and the non-Core +1 to go first mechanic, both of which are likely to become standard this year once the big TOs make some things happen. Until then we cannot stack up against the OP gunline armies, which is fine with me since if that's the way the game stays it's not worth playing on a competitive level anyways. I am looking to stay pure Green Tide as I think that's the most competitive Ork build and I think Ork vehicles are weak for the most part.

The army plays very simply, it's mostly just run at them and then start resolving combats. I have seen people complain that this list can be too slow in tournament play, with regards to rounds, but I use movement trays and haven't had any issues even in casual games where I'm playing much slower. Against more competitive lists I'll also be losing Orks fast which speeds up the game. Against Mech I rely heavily on tying them up and forcing Withdraws, this doesn't work so well against things with Fly but the only army really spamming that is Eldar and Waveserpents do very little damage to this army. Horde gunlines ala IG are also challenging depending on the build, it remains to be seen how popular these are though.

That's all I got!

Overall this list looks strong, though a bit matchup-dependent.

I suspect they should all be Shoota Boyz. Given the Initiative changes of 8th edition, a charge from a big Ork mob will probably wipe most realistic opponents (or in the case of vehicles at least force them to Fall Back). Adding one more melee attack to all your guys seems relatively unlikely to turn the tide in a meaningful fashion, while adding a 18" range shooting attack to all your guys is actually pretty significant. This also gives you a huge advantage when facing Tyranids, other Green Tide armies that brought Sluggaz, and so on. Admittedly, part of this is based on my prediction that this will end up being an edition with lots of MSU, and if that doesn't pan out the Slugga Boyz may indeed be better (so as to better crash into big enemy units). However, Orks are much better than most other horde infantry in combat even when equipped with Shootas rather than Choppas.

I also suspect "don't take any AT weapons at all" isn't going to end up being the correct balance? I understand your arguments, but it seems to me like you're letting some opponents do to you what you're trying to do to them in terms of making certain weapons useless. In particular, air wing armies will have an absolute field day against this, especially Stormraven/Stormtalon ones. This style of list is also going to be in big trouble vs. "shooty transport spam" (Devilfish/Razorback/Taurox Prime/Wave Serpent) if they bring proper screens, with the Flying transports being especially bad since they can't be tied up. I saw your other thread re: Ork heavy weapons - my sense is that Big Gunz are probably the best bet, and that the strongest Ork lists may well end up taking a lot of Kannons. Once you've started taking Big Gunz, the target saturation becomes somewhat less relevant, and it may be time to bring in Trukks or Wagons... which is I suppose my roundabout way of saying that I think "final" Ork armies are going to include a lot more than just Boyz on foot once the edition matures.

That said, don't let that stop you from getting a bunch of wins before people have wised up! Boyz were hugely buffed recently and against unprepared opponents (which, let's be real, is probably most people at this phase) I think they have the potentially to really overwhelm and dominate.

 Kingsley wrote:
Overall this list looks strong, though a bit matchup-dependent.

I suspect they should all be Shoota Boyz. Given the Initiative changes of 8th edition, a charge from a big Ork mob will probably wipe most realistic opponents (or in the case of vehicles at least force them to Fall Back). Adding one more melee attack to all your guys seems relatively unlikely to turn the tide in a meaningful fashion, while adding a 18" range shooting attack to all your guys is actually pretty significant. This also gives you a huge advantage when facing Tyranids, other Green Tide armies that brought Sluggaz, and so on. Admittedly, part of this is based on my prediction that this will end up being an edition with lots of MSU, and if that doesn't pan out the Slugga Boyz may indeed be better (so as to better crash into big enemy units). However, Orks are much better than most other horde infantry in combat even when equipped with Shootas rather than Choppas.

I also suspect "don't take any AT weapons at all" isn't going to end up being the correct balance? I understand your arguments, but it seems to me like you're letting some opponents do to you what you're trying to do to them in terms of making certain weapons useless. In particular, air wing armies will have an absolute field day against this, especially Stormraven/Stormtalon ones. This style of list is also going to be in big trouble vs. "shooty transport spam" (Devilfish/Razorback/Taurox Prime/Wave Serpent) if they bring proper screens, with the Flying transports being especially bad since they can't be tied up. I saw your other thread re: Ork heavy weapons - my sense is that Big Gunz are probably the best bet, and that the strongest Ork lists may well end up taking a lot of Kannons. Once you've started taking Big Gunz, the target saturation becomes somewhat less relevant, and it may be time to bring in Trukks or Wagons... which is I suppose my roundabout way of saying that I think "final" Ork armies are going to include a lot more than just Boyz on foot once the edition matures.

That said, don't let that stop you from getting a bunch of wins before people have wised up! Boyz were hugely buffed recently and against unprepared opponents (which, let's be real, is probably most people at this phase) I think they have the potentially to really overwhelm and dominate.

I would love to run anti-tank weapons, GW forgot to give Orks any. There are no viable options for Green Tide to kill armor, the best you can do is hidden Rokkits in the Boyz squads and on the Characters. When you math that out it pretty much barely kills a Rhino and that's without Advancing. Even PKs are bad, d3 damage and -1 to Hit is just the worst. I don't think Orks will end up being a competitive army in the current meta, they simple cannot beat air wing and stuff like that. Even if you take Tankbustas for days and defend them, which is a horrible list, the math isn't there. This mostly comes from the Space Marine and Eldar Fliers being somewhat OP for their points, no one else is spamming Fliers. Even the DE ones which are good, you see 1-2 per list. All of that is one of the reasons I think Green Tide is required, can't be presenting a multi-dimensional lists when you can't deal with certain things in the game. But yes this list is almost an auto-loss against Fliers unless the mission is progressive scoring. I think that will become a thing.

I have also thought about all Shoota Boyz, I think it's a meta decision. Shootas are really good, they're underrated and dropping 60 shots where I need via the Da Jump is a game changer. However the extra attacks do feel important, mostly for T5-7 stuff which there is a lot of. Warpath can make up for this, the 20+ models extra Attack is not to be relied upon though. Right now if you don't know how to play against Orks you'll usually try to wipe out a unit when you should just be stripping models from each unit. Also most vehicles aren't falling back from me, I don't know if this is the right or wrong call. Obviously getting Overwatch again is better than nothing but you can also hold up a whole unit of Boyz while your army focuses on other stuff. That goes back into Smite and the Warbosses and things like that though. Shootas are also equally useless Turn 1 since I am just Advancing in almost every game.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I would love to run anti-tank weapons, GW forgot to give Orks any. There are no viable options for Green Tide to kill armor, the best you can do is hidden Rokkits in the Boyz squads and on the Characters. When you math that out it pretty much barely kills a Rhino and that's without Advancing. Even PKs are bad, d3 damage and -1 to Hit is just the worst. I don't think Orks will end up being a competitive army in the current meta, they simple cannot beat air wing and stuff like that. Even if you take Tankbustas for days and defend them, which is a horrible list, the math isn't there. This mostly comes from the Space Marine and Eldar Fliers being somewhat OP for their points, no one else is spamming Fliers. Even the DE ones which are good, you see 1-2 per list. All of that is one of the reasons I think Green Tide is required, can't be presenting a multi-dimensional lists when you can't deal with certain things in the game. But yes this list is almost an auto-loss against Fliers unless the mission is progressive scoring. I think that will become a thing.

I'm not so sure no Ork anti-tank options are viable - as I said earlier I think the Ork anti-tank solution probably lies with Big Gunz. Instead of four hidden Rokkits, you can take a Kustom Mega-Kannon, which has double the range and more damage output. Once you start taking those, though, the enemy anti-tank weapons have something to shoot at, which means that you start wanting to diversify away from pure Green Tide - this is why I think the "final" competitive Ork lists will be pretty multidimensional.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I have also thought about all Shoota Boyz, I think it's a meta decision. Shootas are really good, they're underrated and dropping 60 shots where I need via the Da Jump is a game changer. However the extra attacks do feel important, mostly for T5-7 stuff which there is a lot of. Warpath can make up for this, the 20+ models extra Attack is not to be relied upon though. Right now if you don't know how to play against Orks you'll usually try to wipe out a unit when you should just be stripping models from each unit. Also most vehicles aren't falling back from me, I don't know if this is the right or wrong call. Obviously getting Overwatch again is better than nothing but you can also hold up a whole unit of Boyz while your army focuses on other stuff. That goes back into Smite and the Warbosses and things like that though. Shootas are also equally useless Turn 1 since I am just Advancing in almost every game.

Well, even if you advance you can still fire Shootas, albeit at -1 to hit. 30 Shoota Boyz, assuming their Advance gets them within 18", get 60 shots and 10 hits, probably killing a few infantry or knocking a wound off a tank. In practice not everyone will be in range, of course, but it's better than Sluggaz not getting shots at all until 12", at which point they get half as many shots relative to Shootaz and lose all their shooting if they Advance. (In practice protracted assaults seem rare enough that shooting pistols in combat is almost a non-factor in my games, though your mileage may vary.)


Those issues aside, it seems like it might be worth it to add Mad Dok Grotsnik/Painboyz to your list for extra resilience on the infantry. It also might be worth considering a Kommando unit to bring in some more shock assault capability alongside your Jump.

I would disagree about the Mek Gunz/Big Gunz, the math just isn't there on them when you start doing it. I actually have a whole thread on this in the Tactics section, Orks have things that look like they're anti-tank but when you really crunch the numbers AND apply them to a real game they aren't. That gets worse against Fliers and having them be obvious targets against opposing big guns, as you said, plus many of the solutions are too short ranged and/or static. 8th Edition plays best with a lot of LoS Terrain, meaning the many static choices that Orks have are even worse than they look on paper. Mek Gunz move 3" and only shoot 36", both of these are big problems.

I think one of the problems is that everyone is approaching the game with certain missions in mind. If you play Maelstrom in your meta you cannot take these vehicle heavy/flier heavy armies, they'll lose every game to a balanced list. If you play Eternal War the missions don't matter at all and you just kill each other, hence all the gunlines you can see on these very forums which do literally nothing but kill models. I suppose my composition is banking on progressive scoring being the way the competitive scene will go and that creating a meta where I do not need to be able to kill 2-3 Razorbacks or 1-2 Storm Ravens per turn. Right now I accept that as a limitation of the faction/army.

As I said, there may be something to a lot of Shootas and of course they can be fired on the move or Advance. However in my experience I am stuck in by Turn 2 and then Shootas lose some value, heavily dependent on what you're fighting in melee, how fast it dies, army composition, etc. It's something I'd have to get a lot of games with and without to arrive at what I feel is a strong conclusion. Not saying one is right or wrong, I don't know the answer to that.

Been testin out 30 Boy blobs myself. I have been finding I just don't really need more than 1-2 max size groups (they just mulch everything). More than that I feel did not even get a chance to do anything and it is exhausting AF to setup and move all those dudes.

Have a ton of terrain on the tables where I play so movement trays don't really work out.

I like shoota boyz better, with warpath they still chew right through multiple units, getting stuck in combat has not been an issue for me.

Have you considered throwing three Big Shootas in each boy blob. Has surprised me in its ability to harass sniper units and just gives you more chances to interact with things out of charge range (usually mission based)

List is strong but I'm not sold about that many biker characters. The KFF is bad when it comes to protect hordes and with a bike is very expensive. A couple of painobyz could be more helpful.

I'd just keep the weirdboyz and zhad. With the spared points you could add some min units of kommandos or some lootas/mek gunz to sit on objectives in your deployment zone. Maybe a mob of stormboyz, eventually with zagstruck could be handy too.

 Blackie wrote:
List is strong but I'm not sold about that many biker characters. The KFF is bad when it comes to protect hordes and with a bike is very expensive. A couple of painobyz could be more helpful.

I'd just keep the weirdboyz and zhad. With the spared points you could add some min units of kommandos or some lootas/mek gunz to sit on objectives in your deployment zone. Maybe a mob of stormboyz, eventually with zagstruck could be handy too.

You'd have to go into a lot more detail on why you think a KFF is bad because I have found the complete opposite to be true. The army doesn't even work without them.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
List is strong but I'm not sold about that many biker characters. The KFF is bad when it comes to protect hordes and with a bike is very expensive. A couple of painobyz could be more helpful.

I'd just keep the weirdboyz and zhad. With the spared points you could add some min units of kommandos or some lootas/mek gunz to sit on objectives in your deployment zone. Maybe a mob of stormboyz, eventually with zagstruck could be handy too.

You'd have to go into a lot more detail on why you think a KFF is bad because I have found the complete opposite to be true. The army doesn't even work without them.

Basically because the 9'' inch bubble isn't huge and can probably shield max 60 boyz as the entire unit must be under the bubble to get the invuln. With two KFFs you'll end with all the boyz concentrated in two bubbles of 9'' while you could have spread them across the board. Painobyz only grant a 6+ but it's cumulative with the armor/cover save while the invuln isn't. And you can spread the boyz since the new FNP affects units nearby, they don't need to be under some bubble. Painboyz are also cheaper and a single dok can cover even 3 mobs if deployed properly. The KFF is nice when it comes to shield vehicles, which are multi-wounds and saving some high strenght multi damage shots is helpful to keep them alive. Not that is useless with footslogging boyz but I found that it doesn't worth 75-100 points.

Another effective way to protect the boyz is to field units that give pressure to the enemy since you can try to cast Da Jump only once per turn. That's why min units of kommandos or stormboyz (in min or larger squads) have good synergy with footslogging hordes.

Some cheap units that sit on objective can aslo be handy since you want the boyz to charge as soon as possible, not to waste a mob of 30 dudes near an objective. Kommandos and mek gunz, maybe even grots, serve this purpose quite well.

 Blackie wrote:

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
List is strong but I'm not sold about that many biker characters. The KFF is bad when it comes to protect hordes and with a bike is very expensive. A couple of painobyz could be more helpful.

I'd just keep the weirdboyz and zhad. With the spared points you could add some min units of kommandos or some lootas/mek gunz to sit on objectives in your deployment zone. Maybe a mob of stormboyz, eventually with zagstruck could be handy too.

You'd have to go into a lot more detail on why you think a KFF is bad because I have found the complete opposite to be true. The army doesn't even work without them.

Basically because the 9'' inch bubble isn't huge and can probably shield max 60 boyz as the entire unit must be under the bubble to get the invuln. With two KFFs you'll end with all the boyz concentrated in two bubbles of 9'' while you could have spread them across the board. Painobyz only grant a 6+ but it's cumulative with the armor/cover save while the invuln isn't. And you can spread the boyz since the new FNP affects units nearby, they don't need to be under some bubble. Painboyz are also cheaper and a single dok can cover even 3 mobs if deployed properly. The KFF is nice when it comes to shield vehicles, which are multi-wounds and saving some high strenght multi damage shots is helpful to keep them alive. Not that is useless with footslogging boyz but I found that it doesn't worth 75-100 points.

Another effective way to protect the boyz is to field units that give pressure to the enemy since you can try to cast Da Jump only once per turn. That's why min units of kommandos or stormboyz (in min or larger squads) have good synergy with footslogging hordes.

Some cheap units that sit on objective can aslo be handy since you want the boyz to charge as soon as possible, not to waste a mob of 30 dudes near an objective. Kommandos and mek gunz, maybe even grots, serve this purpose quite well.

A KFF easily, easily covers 90 Boyz, especially with a Warbike base. That's one of the reasons I have it way the way I do, my army all gets a 5++ with ease and I can split up if needed. The only exception to this is my Da Jump units, which are as you said typically for pressure. Also there's really no such thing as Armor/Cover with Orks, Armor is stripped by everything but the lowest end infantry weapons (for the most part) and you will never get cover with blobs this big. Big Meks are worth it for the 5++ alone over many games I've played, not too mention after that they're amazing at tying stuff up in combat with a decent Save, Wounds, and Toughness. As I've stated I also use movement trays which really helps with the KFF bubble.

Kommandos are not really effective at tying things up unless you take a load of them and then they're about the same as any Da Jump target since that Power has 100% success if you want it to. I don't mind them as Objective campers but honestly I'd rather have Grots. There's also rarely Objectives in my Deployment Zone, I either play the ITC variants since they're more balanced or I make sure all the Objectives I place are in the center as that benefits me. If my opponent puts some in a deployment zone they would then have to give me that deployment zone, which isn't even an option in every game. I do like the Gretchin fine in the role, Big Gunz are too vulnerable for their price so you have to defend them.

My biggest concern about this, and any competitive horde lists, is simply the time factor.

In most competitive environments, matches are timed. And being able to play a game with ~200 models and accurately and quickly execute all of their moves and attacks in ~2 hours seems almost impossible to me.

Also, I might consider dropping a warboss to pick up a couple painboyz on bikes (or however the points work out).

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
My biggest concern about this, and any competitive horde lists, is simply the time factor.

In most competitive environments, matches are timed. And being able to play a game with ~200 models and accurately and quickly execute all of their moves and attacks in ~2 hours seems almost impossible to me.

Also, I might consider dropping a warboss to pick up a couple painboyz on bikes (or however the points work out).

Painboys on Bikes are shockingly overpriced, a Warboss wouldn't even cover one. As I said in the OP, time is not a factor. Movement trays cut down the time by a lot and in a competitive setting I'm going to lose about 30+ models a turn, or more against truly OP armies like SM Flier spam. That tends to cut down on the amount of time you need. I've also been playing for many, many years and am good at counting models fast, I have easy to read dice, etc.

I am a little shocked at painboy on a warbike, it's the same price as a warboss. It's a pity, as without a warbike, I've found them to be almost useless, as the infantry they mean to support almost always outpace them.

Movement trays are an idea I've heard of, and sound good at least for deployment, but when you actually get into moving dudes around, their actual locations matters a great deal for piling in and consolidating into other units, not to mention measuring for CC attacks.

So, I'm curious to know how well movement trays work once you get stuck in.

They don't work when I'm stuck in but by then they already did their job. It's not to hard to pull guys off and move them, as fast as it would be without the trays. Casualties taken help with that, as I've said, Orks don't make it in without losses. As for moving them on tables with funky terrain and all that I typically use the Wobbly Model Syndrome rules which are great and just clarify with my opponent where my front lines are and all that. Hasn't been an issue as of yet.

How did you make your movement trays?

With money from the Internet, since I have no modelling talent.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I would disagree about the Mek Gunz/Big Gunz, the math just isn't there on them when you start doing it. I actually have a whole thread on this in the Tactics section, Orks have things that look like they're anti-tank but when you really crunch the numbers AND apply them to a real game they aren't. That gets worse against Fliers and having them be obvious targets against opposing big guns, as you said, plus many of the solutions are too short ranged and/or static. 8th Edition plays best with a lot of LoS Terrain, meaning the many static choices that Orks have are even worse than they look on paper. Mek Gunz move 3" and only shoot 36", both of these are big problems.

I dunno, the math doesn't look so bad to me:

KMK = 1.9444 damage vs. T7 3+ on average
BS4 Lascannon = 1.296 damage vs. T7 3+ on average

A KMK with crew costs 48 points; a single lascannon Devastator costs 38. For +10 points the KMK gets a firepower boost, more versatility against infantry and heavy infantry, and much more resilience, though it loses out on 12" of range. People are taking lascannon Devastators - so the KMK seems more efficient than long range anti-tank options that are actually being used in other armies at present. I don't think that's anywhere near bad enough to give up on shooting for da Orkz, though I could be wrong.

Range is a big deal. Lack of mobility is a big deal. No access to buffs is a big deal, as is decreased accuracy. In a vacuum Devs aren't very good, however they pretty much always have a Captain (or better), unit buffs, access to a Transport to prevent being alpha struck, and so on so they get better. Also taking 5-6 KMKs to shoot a Rhino to death in one turn doesn't fit as well with an Ork list as it does for IG, SM, and so on. Being able to whittle down a Rhino over two Turns isn't fast enough, in my opinion, so it starts getting really all or nothing.

I am being a bit hyperbolic when I say there's no options, that's not strictly true. I more mean that I don't think there are practical options that work in a real game, which is where I'd say the Ork solutions mostly fall apart.

I swear I did not see your list before posting mine (Smite Spam). Holy smokes! That's a whole lotta boyz. Your finalized build looks really, really great. Simple, straight to the point. Must be tough to counter - I'd like to try it but I'm afraid don't have that many (painted) greenskins. And I'm pretty confident there will be some kind of added bonus for greentides when the Codex is released (that is, if you play a Goff Klan army - so no Zhadsnark but Ghazzy as Lord of War). How did it go so far in competitive matched play?

Dont forget the Warboss can have free shoota to fire alongside bike.

Bigdoza wrote:
Dont forget the Warboss can have free shoota to fire alongside bike.

this the shoota matches well with the 18in range dakkaguns. Sadly big Meks on bike can't take them might be worth a combiskorcha on those if you got the points.
Also I think mad doc is a versatile unit for smite spam and big blobs providing large amounts of 6+fnp and a few extra wounds healed in weird boys. Not to mention a rare 3+ powerklaw and cute fallback and charge mechanics.

Yeah the Warbosses have Shootas, just forgot to put it in the list. It rarely matters but a free gun is a free gun. :]

Been working on my Warboss on "bike"

A battery of several KMKs doesn't worth its points, mek gunz are just decent objective campers.

10 grots cost 30 points but only have 10 wounds with T2, 10 S3 shots and they istantly die against pretty much everything.

5 kommandos are 45 points, 6 wounds with T4 and 4+ save in cover and certainly better in close combat than grots. They can also deep strike.

KMKs and other mek gunz have more wounds than grots with higher T and save and shoot better, while their cost is just a bit higher.

Both KMKs and kommandos are way better than grots, unless you absolutely need a troop choice for your detachment or you don't have any heavy support or elite slots available.

I agree that the Grots are not good Objective campers unless they can avoid LoS, they're in the list primarily as a screen. Objective camping is a secondary responsibility.

Bigdoza wrote:
Been working on my Warboss on "bike"

Obviously, it is so great to have boar-riders in 40K! It's also one of my projects... pending...

Glad I found your last; as a huge Ork fan I've been following your blog closely. Good work and thank you for all of your insights!

A few questions:

1. How do you divvy up your powers amongst the weirdboyz?

2. Do you use the Grots primarily to screen your characters, or as chaff in front of the boyz?

3. Any advice playing against heavily mechanized Sisters? My friend plays it and honestly I feel helpless. He basically always has a brutal alpha strike with Celestine + Seraphim with acts of faith. He also plays like 6 Immolators which I cannot just tie up in combat.

4. Model suggestions for that many weirdboyz?

Tournaments are time limited, usually 15 mins a round if I'm not mistaken.

I play against conscript spam and I can't see how horde spam armies on this scale are going to be competitive. They are very powerful lists yes, but even just setting up that many boys will take ages. Then each turn will take forever just in movement, before you even start rolling dice!

Will you be able to move, charge and roll all the attack dice for that army?

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm genuinely curious

I understand movement trays help with movement, but my mate was rolling 180 dice on Monday per squad. Took an eternity

Edit: should have read the rest of the thread

Never seen an event with timed turns, usually just rounds. In timed turns I wouldn't be able to play this list but I don't think that's common.

Weirdboyz are an even split between Warpath and Da Jump. If there's an odd number the tie breaker goes to Da Jump. 'Eadbanger isn't very good.

Grots are to screen the Boyz against melee armies, to screen the backfield against Deep Strike, or to hold Objectives if neither of those exist.

Immolators are a nightmare, I think having the Characters on Warbikes like I do is a must. They can take the Overwatch much better and then you have to put the Immolator down in one turn. For me that's usually a Boyz unit plus Da Rippa, a Boyz unit plus Grotsnik, or two Boyz units, Warpath also helps. I'll also sacrifice my Weirdboyz for overcharged Smites, d6 Mortal Wounds will put them down fast. Once the Immolators fall the army doesn't do much. Celestine is also not at her best against Orks, really easy to drown her in Wounds.

I use Bonesplitterz Standard Bearers for mine, they come on a bigger base, look savage, and their totem looks like a weirdstick to me. No one has complained yet and I just had them laying around since I play AoS. Failing that I was just going to convert some Nobz.

I've seen army lists from next ETC tournament and a couple of those had a similar list with 180 boyz, a few gretchin units (without Runtherd), multiple KFF and some Weirdboy/Big Boss units. Sounds like effective but would be a pain to play as far as I'm concerned (I've always played my Orks embarked in Trukks, Battlewagons and even Squiggoths or Stompa). I've seen the movement trays which can be used, which template are you using? I guess these are the way to go, but how do you do this in practice? I was planning to use 5-model trays to add more flexiblity to the troops considering terrain, etc. (30 boyz are 6x5-model trays). I'd appreciate if you could again give a little bit of insight here.

There are also lists with 70+ Stormboyz and Boss Zagstruk. These probably go to close combat Turn 1 with the ability to fly over screen units. Another type of competitive greentide?