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As the title says how do orks put down imperial knights. (Or renegade knights)
Or in a very specific case Magnus and 2 Rknights.
Seems to me Orks have a distinct lack of anti armor. Being bs5+ is so so sad.
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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.
Seems poor. Real poor to do 2 damage a strike. 4 Meganobs
Make 12 attacks or 16 with kill saws. 6(8) hit 4(6) wounds
Now 4-12 sans saves. Or 12. Seems great. Till he stomps back 12 times. Which will kill 1-2 MN. Then on his turn walks out shoots in face and since he is still above half and you are down the squad.
But how did they get there. Sure didn't walk. And a trukk is gone. Battle wagon might just might make it turn 2. But a savvy player drops that wagon and now what?
Just my thoughts.
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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.
I've had a few experiences playing my Knight vs some Orks.
A group of 15 Boyz, with no bubble buffs from characters and whatnot, and only a Big Choppa on the Nob, struck back against my Knight when it had charged them.
I learned; don't willingly get in to melee with Boyz unless you have a massive amount of attacks.
Those 15 boyz did about 10 wounds to my Knight in one fight phasem while my Knight could only kill about 6 or so per turn in melee.
Boyz are pretty alright.
Edit: I know it's not entirely ideal to throw Boyz at a Knight, as there's probably better Anti-armor options. But, it IS an option that can work.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/12 17:14:27
Make 12 attacks or 16 with kill saws. 6(8) hit 4(6) wounds
Now 4-12 sans saves. Or 12. Seems great. Till he stomps back 12 times. Which will kill 1-2 MN. Then on his turn walks out shoots in face and since he is still above half and you are down the squad.
But how did they get there. Sure didn't walk. And a trukk is gone. Battle wagon might just might make it turn 2. But a savvy player drops that wagon and now what?
Just my thoughts.
30 boyz
+1 attack spell
+1 hit banner
5 attacks each. 20 in range (assumption).
100 * .833 * .167 * .333 = 4.6 wounds
Stomps can kill at max 12, but realistically 7.
Tankbustas are also pretty reasonable in a trukk, but he might not let you make it there.
2 hammers
klaw on nob
1 pair of rokkit pistols
2 squigs
I played my all-grot based army against 4 knights at 2k and absolutely creamed them, albeit I only ended up killing two but we played maelstrom and the score was like 12-2.
I do arm pretty much everything in my list with rokkits except for several Lobbas, relying on my grots and my units' close combat to handle infantry for the most part. I run 4 Grot Tanks with rokkits, a grot mega tank with 7 rokkits, and 6 killa kanz with rokkits as well as a couple of the anti tank mek gunz. That shooting was enough to blast apart one of the all-shooting knights that had the battlecannon/gatling cannon, and then a gatling/sword knight chopped up the mega tank and ate it to 6 killa kanz with a waagh banner and a big mek.
Mek Gunz, Rokkits, klaws/walkers all seemed pretty danged effective. My opponent was kind of distracted by the Grots, trying to use miniguns to take them out and sweep them off objectives, but they really aren't points efficient trying to kill 3-point models. I would think that'd hold true for Boyz too.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
the_scotsman wrote: I played my all-grot based army against 4 knights at 2k and absolutely creamed them, albeit I only ended up killing two but we played maelstrom and the score was like 12-2.
I do arm pretty much everything in my list with rokkits except for several Lobbas, relying on my grots and my units' close combat to handle infantry for the most part. I run 4 Grot Tanks with rokkits, a grot mega tank with 7 rokkits, and 6 killa kanz with rokkits as well as a couple of the anti tank mek gunz. That shooting was enough to blast apart one of the all-shooting knights that had the battlecannon/gatling cannon, and then a gatling/sword knight chopped up the mega tank and ate it to 6 killa kanz with a waagh banner and a big mek.
Mek Gunz, Rokkits, klaws/walkers all seemed pretty danged effective. My opponent was kind of distracted by the Grots, trying to use miniguns to take them out and sweep them off objectives, but they really aren't points efficient trying to kill 3-point models. I would think that'd hold true for Boyz too.
Hey that sounds a lot like my dream list! I'm such a sucker for newer models so it would cost me almost $1000 to build it. :\
For every thousand points you should have 90 boyz and a weirdboy with warpath and another weirdboy with DaJump. Nobz with bigchoppas.
On top of that you should get Ghaz and a warboss on a bike with a klaw. The rest of the points you can use on whatever you feel like. More boyz is always a good option. More weirdboyz are an even better. Meganobz and tankbustas are not the best option for a list like his, as transports are likely to get instakilled.
And then just advance every turn, while jumping one warpathed squad on top of them every turn. The knights will be utterly swamped, and the weirdboyz can deny Magnus while smiting the knights. If he is not tabled by turn three then you are doing it wrong.
Also, remember that you can use a command-point to reroll when seizing the initative. With the reroll you have 30.5% chance of seizing.
pismakron wrote: For every thousand points you should have 90 boyz and a weirdboy with warpath and another weirdboy with DaJump. Nobz with bigchoppas.
On top of that you should get Ghaz and a warboss on a bike with a klaw. The rest of the points you can use on whatever you feel like. More boyz is always a good option. More weirdboyz are an even better. Meganobz and tankbustas are not the best option for a list like his, as transports are likely to get instakilled.
And then just advance every turn, while jumping one warpathed squad on top of them every turn. The knights will be utterly swamped, and the weirdboyz can deny Magnus while smiting the knights. If he is not tabled by turn three then you are doing it wrong.
Also, remember that you can use a command-point to reroll when seizing the initative. With the reroll you have 30.5% chance of seizing.
If i only had 90+ boys.
Last time my orks were played was in 5th (also last time i played) back then foot slogging was death.
But my plan is 4 Manz Ghaz Grotsnik a big mek and a weird boy. With a little luck my wagon won't explode immediately. Ard case and kff should mitigate a lot of it is my hope.
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on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.
Short answer: You don't deal with Knights. You do your best to score objectives and kill everything except the Knights because Orkz don't have a decent counter to anything Super Heavy this edition and we even have a hard time putting down regular T7 Tanks.
SemperMortis wrote: Short answer: You don't deal with Knights. You do your best to score objectives and kill everything except the Knights because Orkz don't have a decent counter to anything Super Heavy this edition and we even have a hard time putting down regular T7 Tanks.
That has never been more false.
In this edition you ALWAYS wound on a 6, regardless of Strength/Toughness.
The Ork Principle is that everything counts in large amounts - you pour out bucketloads of shots or attacks from even your basic troops.
Large number of attacks always wounding on a 6 - yeah, you can deal with superheavies far easier in this edition than the last 3.
Killsaw meganobz + banner nob, ghaz, weird boys. 4 mans with +1 attack, and + 1 to hit. 20 attacks, 13-14 hits, 8-9 wounds is 18 damage, if hit by smite of any shooting that is a knight down. Now it is hard to do against multiple knights.
Breng77 wrote: Killsaw meganobz + banner nob, ghaz, weird boys. 4 mans with +1 attack, and + 1 to hit. 20 attacks, 13-14 hits, 8-9 wounds is 18 damage, if hit by smite of any shooting that is a knight down. Now it is hard to do against multiple knights.
You are also using 608pts to kill that knight in CC, forgetting that those units move 4in a turn so they will need a Transport. A trukk will die to a knight army so probably a battlewagon, so tack on another 180pts for that and now you are sitting damn near 800pts to kill a 400pt model.
As others have said, you don't. The math doesn't work out in a realistic way to deal with Knights. If they only have one you should be able to win on mission, if they are playing Knight Spam you'll likely lose. Orks cannot deal with high output shooting, mechanized armies unless you play HEAVY Tankbustas and that's not a viable army unless you counter-list people. Orks have competitive limitations even with the buffs they were given, unless the next Codex switches up some of the tools we were given or ITC/NOVA progressive missions become standard Orks will have a tough go.
A knight kills an average of 6-7 boyz (or gretchin) per turn. As long as you keep them from running, the knight will slowly lose wounds from the orks that keep charging it, without killing a whole lot of them.
You could use charge a unit of nobz with multiple killsaws and powa-stabbas into them and have ammo runts eat the stomp damage.
Last thing is more a fun thing to pull of once in a while rather than a real tactic: Knights cannot move over bikers, buggies, koptaz or trukks. It takes no more than three of those in base contact to force a knight to stay locked in combat and skip shooting for a turn, assuming one of the three is on the opposite side of the knight's base than the other two.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
I think that the best solution is to just field more boyz with buffs. Klaw nobz can eventually deal some damage either - though, some people don't approve of klaws at all and prefer bigchoppas, i think that in this particular case klaws on squad leaders are the way to go.
Meganobz won't work cause they're too expensive and too easy to kill for a knight.
Tankbustas can deal reasonable amount of damage but they need transports and knights will minimise damage by hiding in combat with boyz - sometimes even multiple squads of boyz.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 11:24:50
24 wounds
72 after a 3+ save
432 after a 6+ wound roll
648 after a 3+ hit roll
Since Boyz can easily get 4 attacks (2 base, +1 Choppa, +1 for having 20 or more) that's 162 unbuffed Boyz to kill a Knight in one round.
Of course, you don't have to do that. The Knight has 4 attacks (which turn into 12, I believe, with its Stomps) hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, no save. So that's about 7 dead Boyz per turn, until it starts degrading.
So, if I do some math, assuming you manage to get NO SQUADS IN at 20+ Boyz, you'll need somewhere in the neighborhood of...
Spoiler:
Let's see... If we take 50 Boyz, that's 150 attacks out of 648 turn 1. Knight then strikes, kills 7, and next turn, strikes again, killing 7 more. 36 Boyz remain, for 108 more attacks. (258 out of 648.) Boyz then strike again, for 366 out of 648. Knight double taps, for 22 Boyz left. 66 attacks, times two for the double tap, for 132 more or 390 out of 648. Knight double taps (counting it as undegraded, even though it probably is at this point) for 8 Boyz remaining. That's 48 attacks with the double, for 438 out of 648. Not quite enough.
Bump that up to 60, though, and you get 180 to start. Then knight double taps, down to 46. Boyz double tap, 138 attacks times two, for 456. Knight double taps, down to 32 Boyz. Boyz strike twice, for 96 each time, for EXACTLY 648.
Okay. If you can manage to get 60 Boyz (with 3 attacks apiece) into combat with a Knight and make sure he can't run away, you should be able to crump him good in a few turns.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
It's almost impossible to not allow a knight run away if you don't bring it's wounds down. The knight player should make a mistake to allow that. And if you're spreading out to cover ground you're not dealing enough damage. You pretty much need to focus at least some of them down. And than just outscore.
KMK are too expensive, fragile and don't deal enough damage. Boyz are way better vs knights for the price. MSU guns (of any sort cause they're all pretty meh at shooting anywayz) are decent at backfield scoring though. If you don't use killpoints.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/15 20:05:33
24 wounds
72 after a 3+ save
432 after a 6+ wound roll
648 after a 3+ hit roll
Since Boyz can easily get 4 attacks (2 base, +1 Choppa, +1 for having 20 or more) that's 162 unbuffed Boyz to kill a Knight in one round.
Of course, you don't have to do that. The Knight has 4 attacks (which turn into 12, I believe, with its Stomps) hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, no save. So that's about 7 dead Boyz per turn, until it starts degrading.
So, if I do some math, assuming you manage to get NO SQUADS IN at 20+ Boyz, you'll need somewhere in the neighborhood of...
Spoiler:
Let's see... If we take 50 Boyz, that's 150 attacks out of 648 turn 1. Knight then strikes, kills 7, and next turn, strikes again, killing 7 more. 36 Boyz remain, for 108 more attacks. (258 out of 648.) Boyz then strike again, for 366 out of 648. Knight double taps, for 22 Boyz left. 66 attacks, times two for the double tap, for 132 more or 390 out of 648. Knight double taps (counting it as undegraded, even though it probably is at this point) for 8 Boyz remaining. That's 48 attacks with the double, for 438 out of 648. Not quite enough.
Bump that up to 60, though, and you get 180 to start. Then knight double taps, down to 46. Boyz double tap, 138 attacks times two, for 456. Knight double taps, down to 32 Boyz. Boyz strike twice, for 96 each time, for EXACTLY 648.
Okay. If you can manage to get 60 Boyz (with 3 attacks apiece) into combat with a Knight and make sure he can't run away, you should be able to crump him good in a few turns.
Forgetting that the Knight can move out of combat on its movement phase and still shoot/charge for good measure. And Again you make my point for me. A Knight can be killed by Orkz, but it will take an ungodly amount of them and take more points then the knight is worth to accomplish that task.
by themselves they are 360pts but thats footsloggin in which they will never catch the knight who can move 12 and still shoot every turn where as the Boyz maximum movement is 11 (using advance)
Sooner or later you will catch it due to running out of space to go. Once you do, there won't be a problem catching up to it since you still have the charge move.
The thing is... it won't do you a whole lot of good, since it can still shoot unhindered and move over your boyz to assault more valuable targets.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Jidmah wrote: Sooner or later you will catch it due to running out of space to go. Once you do, there won't be a problem catching up to it since you still have the charge move.
The thing is... it won't do you a whole lot of good, since it can still shoot unhindered and move over your boyz to assault more valuable targets.
And that is how you know there is no hope versus Knights, Jidmah and I agree.
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Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
