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Hello guys,

Got some tournament practise games coming up. Give me your thoughts on this list, please.

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [106 PL, 1998pts] ++

+ HQ [14 PL, 277pts] +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [14 PL, 277pts]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon

+ Elites [61 PL, 1063pts] +

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank [14 PL, 292pts]: Heavy bolter, Storm bolter, Twin accelerator autocannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 145pts]
. Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield [55pts]: Blizzard shield [15pts], Fenrisian great axe [40pts]

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 145pts]
. Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield [55pts]: Blizzard shield [15pts], Fenrisian great axe [40pts]

Wolf Guard [9 PL, 103pts]
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma

Wolf Guard [9 PL, 103pts]
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma

Wulfen [13 PL, 275pts]
. 3x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 3x Storm Shield, 3x Thunder Hammer
. 4x Wulfen
. Wulfen claws
. Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws

+ Heavy Support [7 PL, 175pts] +

Long Fangs [7 PL, 175pts]
. Long Fang: Lascannon
. Long Fang: Lascannon
. Long Fang: Lascannon
. Long Fang: Lascannon
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

+ Flyer [14 PL, 279pts] +

Stormwolf [14 PL, 279pts]: Twin helfrost cannon
. Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
. Two Twin Heavy Bolters: 2x Twin heavy bolter

+ Dedicated Transport [10 PL, 204pts] +

Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

++ Total: [106 PL, 1998pts] ++

The Wulfen deploy in the Stormwolf and move towards the juiciest target + cause immediate threat to provide a distraction while the Venerables move up to the enemy lines. WG in Razorbacks move up to secure midfield objectives and generally give horde control, possibly supported by Bjorn for re-roll to the asscans and to provide long range support (Sicaran will either join them or hand back with Bjorn if he instead fills a backfield defence role). Long Fangs and all other lascannons take out the biggest shooting threat/s to the Stormwolf, to hopefully keep it alive going in to Turn 2.

All comments and criticism greatly appreciated! Thanks

I prefer Drop pods to Razorbacks generally but it's more of a personal preference. I definitely like what you've done with the dreadnoughts. Though I don't know how effective your wulfen will be in a flyer as opposed to starting on the ground. They can probably get in melee round 2 if they're not in the flyer... as opposed to round 3 or 4 in the flyer.

 Freya wrote:
I prefer Drop pods to Razorbacks generally but it's more of a personal preference. I definitely like what you've done with the dreadnoughts. Though I don't know how effective your wulfen will be in a flyer as opposed to starting on the ground. They can probably get in melee round 2 if they're not in the flyer... as opposed to round 3 or 4 in the flyer.

Razorbacks with assault cannons are solid gold so far in 8th edition. Drop pods are too expensive now for what they do. I could see having maybe one, two max, in a list but they aren't the transport of choice in 8th edition. The wulfen in the flyer is solid. They will be in assault on Turn2 with the ability of precision placement. The flyer is also a workhorse that can kill a lot of stuff to clear the path for the wulfen. I'm not sure how you figure the wulfen wouldn't be in combat until turn 3 or 4. In 7th, yeah....welcome to 8th. Whole different game.

As to the list, I think it is solid. Bjorn straight up murders stuff in 8th edition and is very survivable. I don't have a sicaran so I can't really offer too much there but reports are that it is great. Blizzdreads present a great threat and can rival knight titans under the right circumstances. Wolf guard look fine. I have used that very same load out in a half dozen games and they're great for horde control. You might have too many points wrapped up in the wulfen but they do put in work. I like having a wolf priest with them to allow for rerolls to offset the to hit penalty of the hammers and to heal wounded wulfen. Long fangs are solid but will draw a lot of attention. The stormwolf is a beast but don't rely on it being on the table for very long. I like the multimeltas on mine since I can usually place the stormwolf in a position to kill just about anything that threatens the cargo and then dump the cargo out in the next turn.

crouching lictor wrote:

 Freya wrote:
I prefer Drop pods to Razorbacks generally but it's more of a personal preference. I definitely like what you've done with the dreadnoughts. Though I don't know how effective your wulfen will be in a flyer as opposed to starting on the ground. They can probably get in melee round 2 if they're not in the flyer... as opposed to round 3 or 4 in the flyer.
[/quote
As to the list, I think it is solid. Bjorn straight up murders stuff in 8th edition and is very survivable. I don't have a sicaran so I can't really offer too much there but reports are that it is great. Blizzdreads present a great threat and can rival knight titans under the right circumstances. Wolf guard look fine. I have used that very same load out in a half dozen games and they're great for horde control. You might have too many points wrapped up in the wulfen but they do put in work. I like having a wolf priest with them to allow for rerolls to offset the to hit penalty of the hammers and to heal wounded wulfen. Long fangs are solid but will draw a lot of attention. The stormwolf is a beast but don't rely on it being on the table for very long. I like the multimeltas on mine since I can usually place the stormwolf in a position to kill just about anything that threatens the cargo and then dump the cargo out in the next turn.

Played one game so far with the list and my opponent's list was far from optimal but this list crushed it. The Razorbacks are great workhorses, either whittling down infantry squads or plinking a few wounds here and there off bigger stuff (in this case a Renegade Knight). The Sicaran can be amazing if you get a good roll with the AP-4 on 6s and 8 shots and 2 damage a piece, but with a bad roll it'll do nothing. Long Fangs were solid, but not completely sold on them yet - could be better options for the points I'd save dropping them - e.g. Wolf priest with the Wulfen and another hammer & shield for example (Love me a good storm shield) or even MMs on the stormwolf.

You're right about the Stormwolf though, every game I've played it in it's been shot off the board by the 3rd turn at the very latest - nothing they can do about the Wulfen at that point though.
Wulfen in mind - they whiffed a little bit actually. Weren't getting enough hits with the hammers and they struggled to get past a predator. Made absolute mince out of a Daemon Prince though.

I've now played 3 games with the axe dreads and this was by far their worst. One was shot/smited/clawed off the table by a Knight and Daemon Prince and the other was caught in a plaguebearer/nurgling tarpit for pretty much the whole game. I still like them a lot though. I have a friend who straight up laughed it off when I told that a 145pt axe & shield dread can comfortably kill an Imperial Knight - but in my experience it's absolutely true.

Bjorn, as always, more than pulled his weight. His re-roll 2+ hit and generally re-roll 2+ or 3+ wound is nuts. TwinLas is so good on him - anyone had much experience with any of the other options? I have the Helfrost and Plasma option to try out, but I really like the 48" range.

By the time the Wolf Guard got out their Razorbacks there was nothing for them to do, but I think they look pretty solid on paper.

Another list I'm considering (which will probably be my "that guy" list) is three Stormwolves with MM, 3 units of hammer & shield Wulfen, and a Wolf Priest to follow them around for the close combat re-rolls.

Really like the list.

Do you find the wolf guard load out to be optimal? There's lots of other options available to them.

Time of madness

I have been toying around with a flyer list concept myself. What worries me is the cost of our flyers compared to the volume of fire they put out and their vulnerability to smite. I'd be inclined to include a couple of culexus assassins in the list to help protect it from smite spam lists.

Time of madness wrote:Really like the list.

Do you find the wolf guard load out to be optimal? There's lots of other options available to them.

I haven't properly seen what they are able to do yet - need some more games with them. Definitely liking the look of them over Grey Hunters or Blood Claws though. As for what's optimal, I think the load out I've listed above isn't the best and ideally I'd drop the bolt pistols for a second chainsword so they're getting 4 attacks in CC.

I did toy with just running Wolf Guard in Razorbacks with nothing but combi-plasmas. Lots of points though.

crouching lictor wrote:I have been toying around with a flyer list concept myself. What worries me is the cost of our flyers compared to the volume of fire they put out and their vulnerability to smite. I'd be inclined to include a couple of culexus assassins in the list to help protect it from smite spam lists.

I've always been a big fan of running mono-wolves, but having just now read over the rules for the Culexus I think I might have to find space for one at the very least.