Switch Theme:

Imperial Guard - The Lack Of Special Characters & Keywords  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Dakka Veteran





"The Imperial Guard is the largest coherent fighting force in the galaxy. They serve as the Imperium of Man's primary combat force and first line of defence from the myriad threats which threaten the existence of the human race in the late 41st Millennium. It is comprised of countless billions of men and women -- hundreds of thousands of different regiments, supported by a vast array of light and heavy armoured vehicles that provide the Guard's primary offensive punch."

Emphasis on countless billions.

Naturally in an army of countless billions it makes sense that there would only be a handful of special characters right? Where are all of our special characters? I don't have any index near me but lets see who we have left.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kell - Dead. Restricted to Cadian lists.

Creed - Pokeball'd. Restricted to Cadian lists.

Pask - Restricted to Cadian lists.

Straken - Restricted to Catachan lists.

Harker - Restricted to Catachan lists.

Yarrick - Can be used for any AM list if I recall correctly.

Nedogg - Can't recall his restrictions.

Marbo - Not included in 8th index.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in total we have 8 special characters, 1 who is dead, 1 who isn't even in the index, 1 who is MIA with Trazyn & we may not see for a few thousand years. Leaving us with a total of 5 special characters for the entire army of "countless billions". Of those 5, 3-4 have regimental specific rules restricting their use further. Now I know what you are going to say. You can use "Mixed Regiments"!

Imagine for a moment you saw a space marine player running with 2-3 different chapters in his/her list to min/max benefits to create a power list. It would be immediately deemed WAAC behavior or TFG. Mixed regiments are no different. There is no way in a million years most of these special characters would come in contact with other special characters from other regiments. The universe is too vast & there is to much sh*t going on, especially now with the emergence of the warpscar restricting travel further. So you can toss that mixed regiment business in the garbage unless one intends to add other regiments without overlapping special characters & are ok with buffs not applying to large portions of their army.

Which leads to my last point. When are we going to see more special characters? Where are the Mordian, Steel Legion, Valhallan, Vostroyan, Tallarn etc special characters?

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/07/14 06:34:56


 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





They don't have in production models so they' don't get rules
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




This is interesting in part because, given the fact the plot line has actually moved forward, these are all likely legacy characters. I mean, they can call warp shenanigans if they want, but most of them would be well over a hundred by now, and I doubt they'd all have access to life extending medical treatment. Creed may end up being the only non legacy character hilariously.

So, I'd honestly be surprised if we didn't see more special characters and models come when the IG codex does drop.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 CrownAxe wrote:
They don't have in production models so they' don't get rules


That makes sense, but the same could be said for most of the IG. Much of the IG has 20+ year old models or no models at all. Do you think we will see a triumvirate of IG characters in the near future?

SilverAlien wrote:
This is interesting in part because, given the fact the plot line has actually moved forward, these are all likely legacy characters. I mean, they can call warp shenanigans if they want, but most of them would be well over a hundred by now, and I doubt they'd all have access to life extending medical treatment. Creed may end up being the only non legacy character hilariously.

So, I'd honestly be surprised if we didn't see more special characters and models come when the IG codex does drop.


I agree that many likely do not have access to rejuvenat treatments but it seems likely the only explanation as to why they are still alive & serving the Imperium. I suspect Creed will outlive everyone & emerge the new Macharius having 1000's of years to plan his grand strategy.

The new addition of regiment specific keywords makes the already small list of special characters even smaller. Is this by design? Are they planning on rolling out regiment specific doctrines & heroes? Why else would they limit buffs like Harker's rerolls exclusively to Catachans? I do like that it encourages fluffy lists & more reasons to play Catachans, but if I saw a player rolling a completely different regiment & using Harker that is kind of silly. He would have to designate which units are "Catachan" and which units are not in order to benefit from the rerolls and having to remember that for an opponent would get tiresome.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/07/14 06:32:52


 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

Oh stop it. As an Ad Mech I have one. And the mechanicus is supposed to be ruled over by countless remarkable people. People that have lived for decades, conttolling the most technologically advanced armies the imperium has to offer. People that knight houses pay homage to. And while the Skitarii is made specifically to have no discernable personalities, the novel Skitarius shows us that they still have a few notable leaders that have been allowed to keep their humanity in order to make them better leaders on the field. Don't whine that the lore doesn't match the rules. It's silly at best.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Special characters are boring anyway. Invent your own guys. Roleplay That gak.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Purifier wrote:
Oh stop it. As an Ad Mech I have one. And the mechanicus is supposed to be ruled over by countless remarkable people. People that have lived for decades, conttolling the most technologically advanced armies the imperium has to offer. People that knight houses pay homage to. And while the Skitarii is made specifically to have no discernable personalities, the novel Skitarius shows us that they still have a few notable leaders that have been allowed to keep their humanity in order to make them better leaders on the field. Don't whine that the lore doesn't match the rules. It's silly at best.


To be fair, Cawl still gets my vote for one of the best HQs out there, particularly for his cost.

but another thought springs to mind, what regiments (or really homeworlds) do you think might get new characters? Assuming the existing characters either stay or just get 2.0 versions. None of the other IG ranges really have that much focus. Maybe Mordian, or Vostrayan?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 07:36:11


 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

SilverAlien wrote:
 Purifier wrote:
Oh stop it. As an Ad Mech I have one. And the mechanicus is supposed to be ruled over by countless remarkable people. People that have lived for decades, conttolling the most technologically advanced armies the imperium has to offer. People that knight houses pay homage to. And while the Skitarii is made specifically to have no discernable personalities, the novel Skitarius shows us that they still have a few notable leaders that have been allowed to keep their humanity in order to make them better leaders on the field. Don't whine that the lore doesn't match the rules. It's silly at best.


To be fair, Cawl still gets my vote for one of the best HQs out there, particularly for his cost.

but another thought springs to mind, what regiments (or really homeworlds) do you think might get new characters? Assuming the existing characters either stay or just get 2.0 versions. None of the other IG ranges really have that much focus. Maybe Mordian, or Vostrayan?


You're overrating him, probably with bias gained from the end of 7th when his cost and power were absolutely pants-on-head broken. Without a FNP (which used to be rerollable too) he is far less tanky, and he has no gun with any kind of range, leaving him as a solo cc beast in an army that doesn't do cc. He is definitely worth his points, but you buy him for his aura and canticles shenanigans, and pay for his cc capability. In 7th you just ran him up the field and got him into combat. You can't do that now. He is needed around your best shooting and can't shoot while there.

He is good, but not one of the very best.

And his worth has nothing to do with the complaint of this thread.

I think a great way to introduce the new codex would be to introduce one new character to each major subfaction, as a character really helps with the flavour of a subfaction and works really well with the keywords for making each different world a bit unique. Cawl is Mars, so I'd love to see maybe three other worlds get someone unique. Ryza and metalica come to mind, as well as Catachans getting some kind of guerilla warfare character.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





SilverAlien wrote:
but another thought springs to mind, what regiments (or really homeworlds) do you think might get new characters? Assuming the existing characters either stay or just get 2.0 versions. None of the other IG ranges really have that much focus. Maybe Mordian, or Vostrayan?


I'd like to see special characters for all regiments. Catachans are pretty much set this edition. Harker, Marbo, Straken are very solid. Cadians could probably use another hero. Mordia is dire circumstances per the new fluff, but that is when heroes emerge. I'm not aware of the events that are unfolding on Vostrayan, but I could see a very cool firstborn type character emerge. I'd love to see a gas mask type hero for Steel Legion armies, since Yarrick is universal. There is pretty much unlimited possibilities.


 Purifier wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
 Purifier wrote:
Oh stop it. As an Ad Mech I have one. And the mechanicus is supposed to be ruled over by countless remarkable people. People that have lived for decades, conttolling the most technologically advanced armies the imperium has to offer. People that knight houses pay homage to. And while the Skitarii is made specifically to have no discernable personalities, the novel Skitarius shows us that they still have a few notable leaders that have been allowed to keep their humanity in order to make them better leaders on the field. Don't whine that the lore doesn't match the rules. It's silly at best.


To be fair, Cawl still gets my vote for one of the best HQs out there, particularly for his cost.

but another thought springs to mind, what regiments (or really homeworlds) do you think might get new characters? Assuming the existing characters either stay or just get 2.0 versions. None of the other IG ranges really have that much focus. Maybe Mordian, or Vostrayan?


You're overrating him, probably with bias gained from the end of 7th when his cost and power were absolutely pants-on-head broken. Without a FNP (which used to be rerollable too) he is far less tanky, and he has no gun with any kind of range, leaving him as a solo cc beast in an army that doesn't do cc. He is definitely worth his points, but you buy him for his aura and canticles shenanigans, and pay for his cc capability. In 7th you just ran him up the field and got him into combat. You can't do that now. He is needed around your best shooting and can't shoot while there.

He is good, but not one of the very best.

And his worth has nothing to do with the complaint of this thread.

I think a great way to introduce the new codex would be to introduce one new character to each major subfaction, as a character really helps with the flavour of a subfaction and works really well with the keywords for making each different world a bit unique. Cawl is Mars, so I'd love to see maybe three other worlds get someone unique.


I'm all for mechanicus getting additional characters, same applies to pretty much all armies. I'm fine with primaris marines getting new heroes & the like but when no other army sees updates for decades, I think we can be forgiven for being a little impatient.

Catachans getting some kind of guerilla warfare character.


I think Marbo fits that bill pretty well if he gets added to the codex. He is pretty much Rambo incarnate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 08:50:54


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





regarding IG armies, is a ton of characters REALLY what they want? isn't a biiig part of the appeal of the IG that they're the faceless everyman?

honest question

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding IG armies, is a ton of characters REALLY what they want? isn't a biiig part of the appeal of the IG that they're the faceless everyman?

honest question


The faceless everyman needs his heroes. His Vassili Zaitsev, his Fighting Jack Churchill, His General Patton and his Red Baron.

 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Commissar Benny wrote:
So in total we have 8 special characters,




Mate, I play DE. You have more special characters than I have HQs period.


Besides which, why would you want more SCs anyway? Why not ask for more options for your regular HQs so that you can make your own characters?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Quick Answer - Guard are not Marines so they get less.

Other factions have similar issues:

Dark Eldar
Sisters
Ad Mech
Knights

Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Am still waiting for them to re-release Cain with stats!

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran




Stockholm

While I can't say that we have a lack of special characters, as many factions actually do not have even one or just one or two, I lament that only special characters get some fun, unique rules. Only Yarrick can have the Iron Will, Hero of Hive Hades and the Power Field rule in AM. Only Creed can use orders three times each turn. Only Catachans can get Harker's re-roll 1s special rule. Only Sicarius can make Tactical Squads fight first regardless if they charged or not, and only Telion can improve Scouts. Heck, you can't even make your own Chapter master anymore.

Right now, you can only take general characters with a few, general rules compared to some of the more unique ones that special chararacters have. This might be remedied in the codices to some degree, but it has never been good. My Company Commander is supposed to be a brilliant strategist, but right now he can only be as good as a general imperial guard captain but he has so few options. My first company captain might be an legendary fighter, but I can never actually make his rules unique enough compared to someone else's whose captain is more of a support officer (although still a good fighter in his own right). I wish they made some general rules like the previous warlord traits that you could buy for your characters to customise them more.

~5000 points of IG and DKoK

I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.  
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Aenarian wrote:
While I can't say that we have a lack of special characters, as many factions actually do not have even one or just one or two, I lament that only special characters get some fun, unique rules. Only Yarrick can have the Iron Will, Hero of Hive Hades and the Power Field rule in AM. Only Creed can use orders three times each turn. Only Catachans can get Harker's re-roll 1s special rule. Only Sicarius can make Tactical Squads fight first regardless if they charged or not, and only Telion can improve Scouts. Heck, you can't even make your own Chapter master anymore.


So much this.

I really wish that the special character abilities like Iron Will would be made available to regular HQs (even if it's just on a one-per-army basis). Then, the actual special characters could just be specific builds.


I think it's especially infuriating when Special Characters don't have a regular HQ that's even remotely comparable. For example, look at St. Celestine and compare her to the other SoB HQs. The Canoness can't even take a Jump Pack, let alone all the wargear and abilities Celestine gets. What's worse is that there are supposed to be other Living Saints - so they could easily have given the player a generic one to customise (again, feel free to make them one-per-army if you want them to be scarce). Even if there's little to no customisation, at least you could stamp your own face on it as opposed to being forced to use that one specific Living Saint every sodding time.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

Eh, I've always enjoyed building my own characters as counts-as on other special character rules. When I played Sisters, I had this little gimp in a robe, with a retrofitted Tau drone hovering over him carrying a sisters twin bolter, and together they counted as Uriah Jacobs.

As an Ad Mech, that isn't really an option. I have one special character and one other HQ choice. Could use a little more.

 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Purifier wrote:
Eh, I've always enjoyed building my own characters as counts-as on other special character rules.


But wouldn't you prefer not having to do count-as and just have them be those characters to begin with?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 vipoid wrote:
 Purifier wrote:
Eh, I've always enjoyed building my own characters as counts-as on other special character rules.


But wouldn't you prefer not having to do count-as and just have them be those characters to begin with?


Not really. Wouldn't mind it hugely either way, but I suspect a character creation module is going to have some balance issues that GW aren't fit to handle. Easier to just balance a static character.

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

The codex will pad this list back out.
If they have any sense, they'll make lots more character models, and replace all the Strakens and Creeds with new ones we have to buy.

6000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 4000 pts - 1000 pts - 1000 pts DS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
IG/AM force nearly-finished pieces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-38888-41159_Armies%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.html
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK https://discord.gg/6Gk7Xyh5Bf 
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran




Stockholm

 Purifier wrote:
Eh, I've always enjoyed building my own characters as counts-as on other special character rules. When I played Sisters, I had this little gimp in a robe, with a retrofitted Tau drone hovering over him carrying a sisters twin bolter, and together they counted as Uriah Jacobs.

As an Ad Mech, that isn't really an option. I have one special character and one other HQ choice. Could use a little more.


Yes, it worked previously. Now? Certainly, but it feels weird.

If I wanted to play 492th Byzantine Dragoons as my regiment, which is led by a tactical genius, I could use a count-as Creed previously. Now, I have to play <Cadia>. My friends won't mind if I mix a little, but games with strangers could be harder. The same goes for DIY Marine Chapters, Legions, Craftworlds or whatever you fancy. Now, I could certainly play with those specific keywords well, counting my Crimson Knights as Ultramarines. But to me, it just feels awkward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Skinnereal wrote:
The codex will pad this list back out.
If they have any sense, they'll make lots more character models, and replace all the Strakens and Creeds with new ones we have to buy.


One can hope.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 10:44:11


~5000 points of IG and DKoK

I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.  
   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

 Commissar Benny wrote:
Which leads to my last point. When are we going to see more special characters? Where are the Mordian, Steel Legion, Valhallan, Vostroyan, Tallarn etc special characters?
GW's creativity went out the window when they went on a moneygrab binge. And their patience with the fanbase went away too, when they realised they aren't the only people who can make plastic soldiers.

So the answer is "probably never", and "because GW doesn't love us anymore".
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Aenarian wrote:
 Purifier wrote:
Eh, I've always enjoyed building my own characters as counts-as on other special character rules. When I played Sisters, I had this little gimp in a robe, with a retrofitted Tau drone hovering over him carrying a sisters twin bolter, and together they counted as Uriah Jacobs.

As an Ad Mech, that isn't really an option. I have one special character and one other HQ choice. Could use a little more.


Yes, it worked previously. Now? Certainly, but it feels weird.

If I wanted to play 492th Byzantine Dragoons as my regiment, which is led by a tactical genius, I could use a count-as Creed previously. Now, I have to play <Cadia>. My friends won't mind if I mix a little, but games with strangers could be harder. The same goes for DIY Marine Chapters, Legions, Craftworlds or whatever you fancy. Now, I could certainly play with those specific keywords well, counting my Crimson Knights as Ultramarines. But to me, it just feels awkward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Skinnereal wrote:
The codex will pad this list back out.
If they have any sense, they'll make lots more character models, and replace all the Strakens and Creeds with new ones we have to buy.


One can hope.


Are the Byzantine Dragoons a thing? A homebrew? Never heard of them.

I specifically think it's a good thing that not everyone gets access to everything. Yes, if you want genius, you're limited to <Cadia>. Good. that's their thing. That adds flavour to their army and makes it different from <X> or <Y> that have their own things. Plus, you can run <Catachan> and <Cadian> together, they just have some very few things that don't overlap. You're not left in the cold here like you're making it out to be.

Furthermore, you can run <Cadia> ruleswise and just paint and call them your Byzantines. The keywords are a rules thing, not a fluff thing. It allows there to be unique armies, instead of everyone being blended into one big mess of brown play-doh.

If I were to make a rule that allowed the officers a special rule like that, I'd make it one single one, and I'd do it like marks of chaos, but with homeworlds. So I'd say you can bring a <Cadia> officer, then he has Tactical Genius, for example. You can call him whatever you want, but in the rules, he's <Cadian> and he works best with the other <Cadian> special rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 11:12:19


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Ah, that's cute, complaining about only having a half dozen special characters.

Dark Eldar has been around since 3rd edition.

We have three named characters in the codex. GW even casually deleted the Ghazghkull/Abbadon/Swarmlord of the faction, the freakin' head honcho main bad guy.

And then, when Eldar were slated to be getting a triumvirate box, and rumors were swirling, GW released a freaking image of Vect with text something like "Tremble in fear, the LORD OF COMORRAGH APPROACHES!" and everyone got really hyped for him to be back, and then he wasn't in the triumvirate. Instead we got one cool character design, an ugly Slaanesh daemon, and Blandy Mcblanderton who you could easily kitbash from the Kabalite Warriors box.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

the_scotsman wrote:
Blandy Mcblanderton who you could easily kitbash from the Kabalite Warriors box.


To be fair, there isn't a single Guard hero that can't be kitbashed from left over Guard gear. ... I think that's a good thing though. My favourite characters have been kitbashes. I've seen some amazing Marbos. I can't find my favourite one, which was this crazy looking guy with a landmine dangling behind him from his backpack, but there are plenty to pick from on Google.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 11:24:45


 
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran




Stockholm

 Purifier wrote:
 Aenarian wrote:
 Purifier wrote:
Eh, I've always enjoyed building my own characters as counts-as on other special character rules. When I played Sisters, I had this little gimp in a robe, with a retrofitted Tau drone hovering over him carrying a sisters twin bolter, and together they counted as Uriah Jacobs.

As an Ad Mech, that isn't really an option. I have one special character and one other HQ choice. Could use a little more.


Yes, it worked previously. Now? Certainly, but it feels weird.

If I wanted to play 492th Byzantine Dragoons as my regiment, which is led by a tactical genius, I could use a count-as Creed previously. Now, I have to play <Cadia>. My friends won't mind if I mix a little, but games with strangers could be harder. The same goes for DIY Marine Chapters, Legions, Craftworlds or whatever you fancy. Now, I could certainly play with those specific keywords well, counting my Crimson Knights as Ultramarines. But to me, it just feels awkward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Skinnereal wrote:
The codex will pad this list back out.
If they have any sense, they'll make lots more character models, and replace all the Strakens and Creeds with new ones we have to buy.


One can hope.


Are the Byzantine Dragoons a thing? A homebrew? Never heard of them.

I specifically think it's a good thing that not everyone gets access to everything. Yes, if you want genius, you're limited to <Cadia>. Good. that's their thing. That adds flavour to their army and makes it different from <X> or <Y> that have their own things. Plus, you can run <Catachan> and <Cadian> together, they just have some very few things that don't overlap. You're not left in the cold here like you're making it out to be.

Furthermore, you can run <Cadia> ruleswise and just paint and call them your Byzantines. The keywords are a rules thing, not a fluff thing. It allows there to be unique armies, instead of everyone being blended into one big mess of brown play-doh.

If I were to make a rule that allowed the officers a special rule like that, I'd make it one single one, and I'd do it like marks of chaos, but with homeworlds. So I'd say you can bring a <Cadia> officer, then he has Tactical Genius, for example. You can call him whatever you want, but in the rules, he's <Cadian> and he works best with the other <Cadian> special rules.


It was meant as a typical random imperial regiment name.

Yes, I know that I could just call them <Cadians> if I wanted to, but it would go against the "make your own regiment/chapter/whatever" thing GW seems to have invented. I could call my Vostroyan models Cadian, I could call my Catachan models Cadian as well, hell I could just buy one troop of each regiment they sell and just call them Cadian. I know its fully legal for as I as said, it seems awkward and terrible when you want to have a bit more fluff. Besides, it makes some keywords better than others. If they release 10 characters for <Chapter A> and 2 for <Chapter B>, Chapter A will most likely have the better choice. Even if just 3 of them are better than the 2 B has, nobody will take the other 7.

And while I agree that its good that everyone doesn't get access to everything, that was never the complaint. Right now, only a few special characters get acces to anything unique at all and every other non-unique character of the same kind in the game will be the same, with no customisation available. To distinguish my warlord company commander from any other company commander other than a small warlord trait right now, as well as giving him or her another weapon. So why not just create a list for every race with I don't know, a dozen rules that could be bought for a cost? Limit it to one or two if necessary. But it would mean that my commander could use 3 orders like Creed, or give everyone next to him re-rolls like Harker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 11:29:56


~5000 points of IG and DKoK

I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.  
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




Wales

There's me hoping for a special character for the Praetorian Guard...

One can dream, one can dream.

374th Mechanized 195pts 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Purifier wrote:
Not really. Wouldn't mind it hugely either way, but I suspect a character creation module is going to have some balance issues that GW aren't fit to handle. Easier to just balance a static character.


Granted. But at the same time, they could have for example just made Celestine a generic 'Living Saint' and kept the 'one-per-army' rule. As far as balance goes, the rules are unchanged, but now I'm at least free to customise its name and such.


I don't know, perhaps we just see things differently. For me, I don't like looking at a model's rules and instantly being reminded that I'm basically lying about who my character is.

It probably doesn't help also that, whilst I've certainly done what you suggest (using SCs to represent my own characters), I'm the only one who does this at any of the groups I play in - everyone else either uses generic HQs or else uses SCs only as those exact characters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 11:40:13


 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Canada

Honestly, I'm ok with the special characters we have, I'd like to see the return of the people who were dropped, Marbo, Chenekov, al'rahem, mogul khamir and he'll even the last chancers would be awesome to see running around again.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

If Marbo returns, I hope he gets his Demo Charge back.

 Purifier wrote:
My favourite characters have been kitbashes.


Yeah, I love kitbashes and conversions.

I love making them but I was also lucky enough to get some great ones in some IG bundles from ebay. One of my favourites is a guardsman with a huge beard who's holding a missile instead of a gun. I don't know why but it makes me smile every time I see it.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Aenarian wrote:


It was meant as a typical random imperial regiment name.

Yes, I know that I could just call them <Cadians> if I wanted to, but it would go against the "make your own regiment/chapter/whatever" thing GW seems to have invented. I could call my Vostroyan models Cadian, I could call my Catachan models Cadian as well, hell I could just buy one troop of each regiment they sell and just call them Cadian. I know its fully legal for as I as said, it seems awkward and terrible when you want to have a bit more fluff. Besides, it makes some keywords better than others. If they release 10 characters for <Chapter A> and 2 for <Chapter B>, Chapter A will most likely have the better choice. Even if just 3 of them are better than the 2 B has, nobody will take the other 7.

And while I agree that its good that everyone doesn't get access to everything, that was never the complaint. Right now, only a few special characters get acces to anything unique at all and every other non-unique character of the same kind in the game will be the same, with no customisation available. To distinguish my warlord company commander from any other company commander other than a small warlord trait right now, as well as giving him or her another weapon. So why not just create a list for every race with I don't know, a dozen rules that could be bought for a cost? Limit it to one or two if necessary. But it would mean that my commander could use 3 orders like Creed, or give everyone next to him re-rolls like Harker.


Because if you give free reign to buy whatever to whoever then you're taking away from the special flavour of the regiments its locked to at the moment. Oh, so ANY regiment can have ANY rule? Why even have the keyword? Might as well drop it and just have "Imperial Guard."

And one regiment having 7 choices is fairly unlikely, and at this point not really worth arguing against. You might as well go "well, what if they make <Cadia> all of the book and all the troops, and then <Catachan> can't be fielded because it has no troop choices!" Why are you arguing points that are built on incredibly unlikely assumptions?

Yeah, the Cadian officer may just be the best of the lot. But it's a good balancing mechanism if he has an order that would be way too strong with Catachans, to lock it to only him, so that he can get a buff that is actually worth something to Guardsmen, without having to nerf it just because some special <Catachan> elite troops would have forced it to be nerfed because it synergised too much with them, and now it's so weak it's not worth anything to anyone.

Yes, I think it's good that you lock certain skills to certain regiments so that you can use it for game flavour. This is a very good way to ensure that there will be several different viable builds, instead of one perfect cookie cutter build.

Because I have Cawl, my entire army is "forced" into being <Mars> for their Forgeworld. But they sure as frickety-frack don't look Mars. They've got a blue camo pattern with Ryza colours on the inside of their coats. My Cawl does too! They're my own little homebrew Forgeworld, but ruleswise, they're Mars. The <keyword> isn't there to name your Regiment. It's there for rules purposes. It's a rule, treat it like it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/14 11:57:28


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: