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So here it goes.

My Eldar have set in their case for far too long. They were the army that got me into 40k back in 2nd Edition, and even though I've played a great deal of armies over the years, I've always come back to Eldar as my favorite.

That being said, I haven't played a game with them since November and am now putting together a semi-competitive list while still using my favorite models/units. Strength from Death is insanely good. Hence the Ynnari list instead of a straight up Craftworld. I've always played Craftworld with a few Harlequins thrown in now and again for some added flavor, so this will be new to me other than just 8th Edition.

I am aware that this list may not be completely optimal, and that's alright. What I'm looking for is advice on how I should finish out the remainder of the points I have available to maximize my army's potential. Unit sizes can be adjusted up/down to move some points around, but I'm looking to keep the core elements.

The list so far:

Ynnari Battalion

HQ: Yvraine (132)
HQ: Warlock (37)

Troop: 10x Guardians w/ HWP- Shuriken Cannon (97)
Troop: 10x Guardians w/ HWP- Shuriken Cannon (97)
Troop: 8x Dire Avengers- Exarch w/ Dire Sword and Pistol (133)

Elite: 5x Fire Dragons- Exarch w/ Fusion Gun or/ Heavy Flamer? (120)
Elite: 5x Fire Dragons- Exarch w/ Fire Pike (125)

Fast Attack: 9x Warp Spiders- Exarch w/ 2x Death Spinners (206)

Heavy Support: 10x Dark Reapers- Exarch w/ Reaper Launcher (360)

Transport: Wave Serpent- 3x Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones (153)
Transport: Wave Serpent- 3x Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones (153)
Transport: Wave Serpent- Twin Brightlance, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Crystal Targeting Matrix (174)

Total: 1787pts

The idea is one that's been discussed before, and at least on paper is solid. (I haven't used Eldar in 8th yet.) Yvraine and the Warlock are used to buff the Dark Reapers and allow them to shoot more often. They can be started in a Wave Serpent for an added layer of protection and also reduce the number of drops during deployment. The Fire Dragons go in another Wave Serpent (or two) and when they deploy they spread wide enough to discourage a multi-assault if they fail to kill their target. The Dire Avengers can be placed in one of the Wave Serpents if the Dragons ride together, probably more of a wasted transport than anything at that point. The Guardian squads (possibly the Dire Avengers too) are used as bubble wrap to push back infiltrating/deep striking units from hammering the Wave Serpents, Warp Spiders, and whatever else is fielded with a first turn alpha strike/charge. They can also be kept close enough to the Yvraine and the Reapers to trigger additional Soulburst actions when they buy it. The Warp Spiders aren't as resilient against enemy fire as they used to be, but they will be averaging a 21" movement each turn, so they can get anywhere fast,and if they get assaulted they can use they WJG to fall back (gaining Fly) allowing them to shoot.

My opponents can/will vary anywhere from Thousand Sons w/ Magnus, to horde IG, to Tau, to Orks'z, to Big Bugs, to Genestealer Spam, to Thunder Puppies, to the Ultra Smurf-tacular Robbi G. and the Flying Turkeys of Doom, to........ You get the idea. My list has to be truly well round on most days as I won't know what I'm facing until I get there, unless we've planned a narrative game on purpose.

This leaves me with 213pts +/- to play with. I've got enough Dire Avengers to max out the squad plus ten more, but I'm really only running the unit because the Exarch is a conversion I did when the 3rd Edition Codex was released and it's one of my favorite models. So the unit stays, but the squad size can/will vary. Warp Spiders and Dark Reapers have long been among my favorite Eldar units, so they're in. The Fire Dragons are so good for their points and could be put into one squad, but since two squads can ride together in one transport, but one squad can't ride in two transports. Why not keep them separate?

I've had a few ideas that I've kicked around, but I'm curious as to what others think would benefit what I've got so far the most.

Here's what I've got to work with, ie. you to help me pick from is:

Craftworld Units-

1x Avatar
2x Farseers on Foot
1x Farseer on a Jetbike
6x Warlocks on Foot
1x Warlock on a Jetbike
1x Spiritseer
1x Autarch on Foot
1x Autarch w/ Warp Jump Generator
1x Autarch on a Jetbike
10x Dire Avengers w/ Ex
5x Pathfinders
10x Howling Banshees w/ Ex
6x Striking Scorpions w/ EX
5x Wraithguard
6x Windriders w/ Shuriken Cannons
5x Shining Spears w/ Ex
6x Swooping Hawks w/ Ex
1x Vyper
2x War Walkers
1x Wraithlord
1x Wraithknight w/ Sword and Shield
1x Falcon Grav Tank / Night Spinner
1x Crimson Hunter(Ex) / Hemlock Wraithfighter
1x Replacement Wave Serpent Turret w/ Twin Brightlances
1x Replacement Wave Serpent Turret w/ Twin Starcannons

Harlequin Units-

1x Troupe Master
1x Shadowseer
1x Solitare
8x Players
1x Death Jester

Any and all feedback and advice is welcome and appreciated. I'll be running my Wolves this weekend and I'm hoping to play my first game with Eldar next, so I've got a week and a half to pull it all together and come up with a plan.

Thanks in advance!

wanna sell me your shining spears / avatar / wraithguard / war walkers?

warpedpig wrote:
wanna sell me your shining spears / avatar / wraithguard / war walkers?

Thinking I might hang on to them for a while longer. Also, not quite the kind of advice I was looking for. Thanks anyway though.

Its not optimal when the army wants to benefit from ''Strength from Death''. Then units need to be rather close.

I like the list, but I do not like dire avengers in 8th, I've been running strictly guardians do to their cheapness (Dire avengers are twice the points for a 6" range boost and 4+ save). But that is with the battle focus rule.. which they lose with ynnari.

I'm still iffy on warp spiders this edition, but fire dragons are super good and dark reapers are absolutely insane! I like the idea of a squad of ten shooting twice within a turn.


As for your eldar units, I've been having a blast running hemlocks. They seem super good. The avatar is insanely fun too. i have him run up with my serpents then unload 30+ guardians and they dont take moral

Night spinner seem super good to me! I've had great success with mine.

As for your other units, just play around with it and find a good mix of your play style.

Dire avengers are unfortunately not great at their current point cost. But the rest of the army looks solid. But I understand the pull of favourite models/units.

I would consider adding a farseer as well. They are almost mandatory with doom.

Crimson hunters are good otherwise. Exarch is overpriced for what it adds to a standard hunter. Hemlocks are almost MVP of the eldar list but isn't on your list otherwise would be an easy add.

If you do get convinced to drop the dire avengers then I'd replace them with the wraithguard. They are great out of a wave serpent. You just lose your battalion down to a vanguard which does cost you some rerolls.

Welcome back!

Wyldcarde wrote:
Dire avengers are unfortunately not great at their current point cost. But the rest of the army looks solid. But I understand the pull of favourite models/units.

I would consider adding a farseer as well. They are almost mandatory with doom.

Crimson hunters are good otherwise. Exarch is overpriced for what it adds to a standard hunter. Hemlocks are almost MVP of the eldar list but isn't on your list otherwise would be an easy add.

If you do get convinced to drop the dire avengers then I'd replace them with the wraithguard. They are great out of a wave serpent. You just lose your battalion down to a vanguard which does cost you some rerolls.

Welcome back!

Thanks.

I've got a Crimson Hunter that I can swap the weapons out to make a Hemlock Wraithfighter. I just wasn't sure about running a single flyer. It seems like it would be the center of attention for all of my opponents fire. Then BOOM! I'm out over 200 points. Do you think it's still viable to run just one? Is it survivable enough to still pull it's weight past a couple of turns?

Looks good.

You could consider combining the Fire dragons into one unit to benefit more from SfD. Ideally you want them to drop out within 7" of one tank/MC, destroy it, then shoot the whole unit again. One unit of 10 probably does that better than 2 5's but YMMV.

I would definitely recommend wraithguard to fill your spare(ish) Serpent, with D-scythes if possible. That would give you two nasty close range units to rush forward and draw fire from the reapers and/or benefit from the soulbursts they create.

Big Warp spider units can be a lot of fun if you jump move right next to an enemy, wipe it out, then use SfD to do another 20ish inch move to safety/an objective/enemies back field/whatever. Keep some supporting fire ready in case the spiders need help finishing their target or alternatively just stand within 7" of whatever the reapers are vaporizing (shoot before the reapers if they do this lol). Also if the spiders can get in the conceal bubble you're using for the reapers they can get -2 to hit.

A Farseer is worth considering in any list but the Yvraine and Warlock combo better with a big reaper unit.

benbe wrote:
I like the list, but I do not like dire avengers in 8th, I've been running strictly guardians do to their cheapness (Dire avengers are twice the points for a 6" range boost and 4+ save). But that is with the battle focus rule.. which they lose with ynnari.

I can cut the squad to five guys w/ the Exarch still carrying a Dire Sword and Pistol. They'll weigh in at 82pts respectively which could free up another 51pts to play with. I know it's still not ideal, but I don't know of any other way to fit the Exarch model on the board other than to run him as Asurmen and he's even more over costed than the Dire Avengers.

Warp Spiders have long been some of my favorite models, so I'm willing to give them a go to see how they hold up.

I also agree that the Night Spinner seems like it could be exceptional.

I haven't run an Avatar in probably five years, as Farseers have always been the go to for HQ choices.

I had thought about running a Supreme Command Detachment of five individual Warlocks as a Smite bomb, but wasn't sure about how well they'd manage the return fire.

Have you play tested the 10 dark reapers unit and Yvraine? I am still contemplating on that combination...

Pros:
-HUGE offensive potential
-Benefits more from psychic buffs

Cons:
-HUGE target priority
-Morale Tests
-Psychic power can be denied/fail (Magnus can easily accomplish this)
-If charged by any unit, all that firepower is gone for a turn

I am also playing around with the idea for just replacing Yvraine with 4 Dark Reapers instead and putting the Dark Reapers in units of 3. Yes they will lose 6 shots if the psychic power goes off compared to 5 units of 3 (adding another DR to make 5 legal units). But that unit gains 8 (9 if you include the extra DR) more DR wounds (4 from the 4 extra exarch). Also, the reroll of 1's on the exarch. Weapons that will target your DR will most likely have multiple shots and with 3 man units, there will be chances that they will wipe the unit and activate SB. Lastly, more tactical flexibility. Can spread the DR units more if against an assault oriented army.

bigbaboonass wrote:


Thanks.

I've got a Crimson Hunter that I can swap the weapons out to make a Hemlock Wraithfighter. I just wasn't sure about running a single flyer. It seems like it would be the center of attention for all of my opponents fire. Then BOOM! I'm out over 200 points. Do you think it's still viable to run just one? Is it survivable enough to still pull it's weight past a couple of turns?

Nothing wrong with running a single hemlock. If you take conceal with it you almost want your opponent shooting it. Between -2 to hit a decent toughness and wounds and spirit stones it can absorb a lot of firepower. And every shot at it is less shots at your dark reapers or serpents full of nasties. Plus hemlock combos well with warp spiders as they can flank together and both gain conceal for -2 to hit. And 2d3 auto hit Str 10 2 damage shots just wrecks any target.

I think it will be the perfect addition as it really puts your opponent in a tough spot at what to prioritise. Plus late game the hemlock is even better. Once the enemy firepower is diminished it can fly around almost at will. It's really good for character hunting as well and just generally erasing units.

Tautastic wrote:
Have you play tested the 10 dark reapers unit and Yvraine? I am still contemplating on that combination...

Pros:
-HUGE offensive potential
-Benefits more from psychic buffs

Cons:
-HUGE target priority
-Morale Tests
-Psychic power can be denied/fail (Magnus can easily accomplish this)
-If charged by any unit, all that firepower is gone for a turn

I have not tested the list as of yet. I probably won't get to until next weekend either. What I've been looking for, is advice on how to finish out the remaining points in my list from people who've had a chance to test out some of the Eldar units.

As to the Pros/Cons of the list, you are correct.

However Yvraine casts "Word of the Phoenix" on a 6+, so it should be pretty reliable, and the range of the Dark Reapers is 48" while the range of Psychic Power denial is 24". So you've really got to be careful during deployment to maximize their effectiveness, but you should be able to cast the power unimpeded at least a turn or two. Being charged is also a problem. This is also why you've got use cheap troops to insulate the Reapers from being charged until they can shoot their enemies off the table.

I think Wyldcarde may be right about running the Wraithfighter to add another must kill target to the list.

I would love to run a unit of D-Scythe Wraithguard but have no idea where to cut the points from to get them on the field.

I may end up running the Wraithfighter and trying to squeeze a couple more Fire Dragons into the list, to add pressure when the Wave Serpents move up.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Looks good.

You could consider combining the Fire dragons into one unit to benefit more from SfD. Ideally you want them to drop out within 7" of one tank/MC, destroy it, then shoot the whole unit again. One unit of 10 probably does that better than 2 5's but YMMV.

I would definitely recommend wraithguard to fill your spare(ish) Serpent, with D-scythes if possible. That would give you two nasty close range units to rush forward and draw fire from the reapers and/or benefit from the soulbursts they create.

Big Warp spider units can be a lot of fun if you jump move right next to an enemy, wipe it out, then use SfD to do another 20ish inch move to safety/an objective/enemies back field/whatever. Keep some supporting fire ready in case the spiders need help finishing their target or alternatively just stand within 7" of whatever the reapers are vaporizing (shoot before the reapers if they do this lol). Also if the spiders can get in the conceal bubble you're using for the reapers they can get -2 to hit.

A Farseer is worth considering in any list but the Yvraine and Warlock combo better with a big reaper unit.

I hadn't really thought about the Fire Dragon SfD potential like that. It might be worth giving it a go.

Wow! Using the Dark Reapers to give the Warp Spiders extra movement is awesome. I'll be using that any chance I get.

As Wyldecarde pointed out the Warp Spiders can benefit from Conceal cast by a Wraithfighter, so running them close by might not be a bad thing either.

So many things to try and not near enough points! Aggghhh!

bigbaboonass wrote:


The list so far:

Ynnari Battalion

HQ: Yvraine (132)
HQ: Warlock (37)

Troop: 10x Guardians w/ HWP- Shuriken Cannon (97)
Troop: 10x Guardians w/ HWP- Shuriken Cannon (97)
Troop: 8x Dire Avengers- Exarch w/ Dire Sword and Pistol (133)

Elite: 5x Fire Dragons- Exarch w/ Fusion Gun or/ Heavy Flamer? (120)
Elite: 5x Fire Dragons- Exarch w/ Fire Pike (125)

Fast Attack: 9x Warp Spiders- Exarch w/ 2x Death Spinners (206)

Heavy Support: 10x Dark Reapers- Exarch w/ Reaper Launcher (360)

Transport: Wave Serpent- 3x Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones (153)
Transport: Wave Serpent- 3x Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones (153)
Transport: Wave Serpent- Twin Brightlance, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Crystal Targeting Matrix (174)

Total: 1787pts

So it's down to adding one of these two to the list:

A) Hemlock Wraithfighter (211) Leaving 2 points to the wind.

If I do this, should I combine the Fire Dragons into one squad? I wouldn't be able to put them in different transports, but I'd maybe take better advantage of SfD?

or

B) 5x Wraithguard w/ D-Scythes (225)

I'll have to drop one Dire Avengers to get the points, leaving me with 5pts that I can use to put Power Blades on the Warp Spider Exarch or whatever else I can come up with. Once again though, if I do this should I combine the Fire Dragons in to one squad to better use SfD? Because the Wraithguard will be in one Wave Serpent and the Dragons will most definitely be together in one of the others.

A) or B)

What do you think?

I suggest keeping the Fire Dragons in 2 separate units. There will be rarely 2+ units within 12" range of 10 FD that is worth targeting with them. Also, harder to tie them both up in CC.

Why is the third serpent equipped with brightlances? I think between the FD and dark reapers you have enough AT (specially if you soulburst with the dark reapers.

Have a look at adding in Shinning Spears for your left over points. Really good counter assault units and very fast. Synergize well with your army and Ynnari.

Ok if you were going to get real serious this is my suggestions.

Hemlock wraithfighter is an easy addition. Do that.

I know you love the dire avengers but cut them. Otherwise keep them and drop them to a 5 man squad. Either way I would consider dropping their wave serpent. And taking either the 5 man avenger squad or better yet another 10 man guardian squad and running them as a bodyguard for your psykers.

At least the drop the bright lance and load out on the wave serpents to cannons. I would also consider dropping the spirit stones. The serpents are pretty survivable without upgrades. But I can see the appeal to take them.

Then with the extra points saved try and fit in a farseer. If you have to, drop the warlock.

Depending on if you decide to keep the third wave serpent or not then depends on what you do from there. Could take a night spinner or a crimson hunter instead. Then it depends on how many points you have. Or just keep it and put a second guardian squad in there.

And finally with any points left over look at razorwing flocks. A unit of 1 costs you 7 points. It's more drops but can die at really good times to soulburst other units.

Alright! Here goes.

After a 2k game with my Wolves, I didn't realize I'd get a chance to play a couple of small games with Eldar yesterday too. Who's complaining though, right? So here are my thoughts and final list. (?)

The two small games of Eldar I played, I just started trying out some of the different units.

I will have to concur with everyone else's statements that Dire Avengers are just rubbish! They are worse than just a waste of points. They will almost single handed lose you the games they are in. I ran a couple of Patrol Detachments and used them as my troop choice. Wow! Talk about embracing the suck! As much as I love my Exarch conversion, I'm still determined to use it. It won't be as a Dire Avenger though.

Farseers on Jetbikes are still awesome!

Wave Serpents are ridiculously survivable.

Brightlances are amazing! At -4 to your save, these are unreal. Even Lascannons are only -3. Rhinos and Dreadnoughts melt in front of these. Compared to a Lascannon you're still wounding on 3+ and they don't get a save!

Warp Spiders are insanely fast. In four turns of movement they were able to move 17", 21", 22", and 26". They were averaging a faster pace than my Wave Serpent! Couple these guys with Doom and -4 to save when they roll a six to wound, and you've got a QRF from hell. The -1 to hit them isn't as bad as I first thought either. It definitely saved a few models. I'm sure they'll be even better in a Wraithfighter's shadow.

Dark Reapers are a must have for any Eldar Army. They're the Eldars answer to blobs/hordes.

War Walkers are alright. Two Brightlances would make them better. I took Missile Launchers.

Eldar Plasma Missiles have -1 to save, and that's better than Frag!

With that said, I've decided to repaint and remodel some of my miniatures to better theme the army together. I want it to look more or less Craftworld, while using the rules for Ynarri. I believe that with a few conversions and a little paint I'll still be able to use my favorite models, just as something else. Proxies if you will, but proxies that don't look like proxies. Yvraine is receiving a Farseer bits overhaul, I've never really cared for her head and ornamentation anyway. Dire Avengers are going through a Kabalite Warrior Armory for upgrades, I figure as long as they are all easily identifiable as what they represent, nobody should have a problem with the conversions.

So here's the list for next weekend:

Ynnari Battalion

HQ: Yvraine (132)
HQ: Farseer on a Skyrunner w/ Witchblade (171)

Troop: 10x Guardians w/ HWP- Shuriken Cannon (97)
Troop: 10x Guardians w/ HWP- Shuriken Cannon (97)
Troop: 5x Kabalite Warriors- Syrabite w/ Splinter Pistol and Power Sword (39)

Elite: 5x Fire Dragons- Exarch w/ Fusion Gun (120)
Elite: 5x Fire Dragons- Exarch w/ Fire Pike (125)

Fast Attack: 8x Warp Spiders- Exarch w/ 2x Death Spinners (184)

Heavy Support: 10x Dark Reapers- Exarch w/ Missile Launcher (354)

Transport: Wave Serpent- 3x Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones (153)
Transport: Wave Serpent- 3x Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones (153)
Transport: Wave Serpent- Twin Brightlance, Shuriken Cannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix (164)

Air Support: Hemlock Wraithfighter (211)

Total: 2000pts

Any thoughts on tweaking this further, or should I just run it for a couple of weeks and see how things play out?