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Player X Charges unit A into Player Y's unit B and kills it. Unit A then consolidates into unit C. Unit A has already fought once, so it can't fight against Unit C, right?
However, does player Y's unit C, in player X's turn, now get to fight?

Assuming unit A is now within 1" of unit C, I would say yes. The fight phase rules only require that a unit charged or is within 1" of an enemy unit to be eligible to fight. There doesn't seem to be any requirement for those conditions to be met at the beginning of the fight phase.

Yes. You skip Overwatch but can be whacked. :-)

Yep. There's no requirement to list all the guys who can fight ahead of time in step 1 of the Fight phase. You just alternate picking guys who are within 1" of enemy models, even if they just became in range. Then repeat steps 2 to 6 for each chosen unit.

So unit A can't fight again right

 SolidOakie wrote:
So unit A can't fight again right

Correct. A cannot fight again, but now C is 'activated' and may swing into A, as long as they're within 1".

Important note: a unit that charged in the preceding Charge phase may ONLY direct attacks against units that it declared against.
So in the OP example, if Unit A piled into Unit C, it would not be able to fight Unit C in that phase, since it only charged Unit B.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Important note: a unit that charged in the preceding Charge phase may ONLY direct attacks against units that it declared against.
So in the OP example, if Unit A piled into Unit C, it would not be able to fight Unit C in that phase, since it only charged Unit B.

Which means there are two reasons why unit A cannot fight unit C that phase
1) unit A already fought and has no permission to fight again
2) unit A charged unit B and only had permission to fight unit B.

Okay I follow so far.

But

If unit A are Khorne Berserkers:

Unit A charges unit X.
Fight phase happens, turn ends with both locked in combat.
Next turn Unit A fights and kills unit X. Consolidates into unit Y. As bezerkers can fight twice can they fight unit Y with their second fight activation?

They didn't charge in the preceding charge phase so they are entitled to target anyone ?

Am I right or have I missed something?

 SolidOakie wrote:
So unit A can't fight again right

Unless it can (berzerkers or some command stratagems).

Though.......hrmm. Guess they didn't technically charge unit C.

 Kinetochore wrote:
Okay I follow so far.

But

If unit A are Khorne Berserkers:

Unit A charges unit X.
Fight phase happens, turn ends with both locked in combat.
Next turn Unit A fights and kills unit X. Consolidates into unit Y. As bezerkers can fight twice can they fight unit Y with their second fight activation?

They didn't charge in the preceding charge phase so they are entitled to target anyone ?

Am I right or have I missed something?

I'd say yes. Only on a turn you charged you are limited to fighting who-ever you charged, and no other units. If you consolidate into a new unit, in a turn where you didn't charge, I think you can fight them if you get a second round of fighting like Khorne Berzerkers.

Are we talking pile in or consolidation? My understanding is that consolidation moves happen at the end of the fight phase. So, once you consolidate, it's too late for anything to fight, attacker or defender.

 Marmatag wrote:
Are we talking pile in or consolidation? My understanding is that consolidation moves happen at the end of the fight phase. So, once you consolidate, it's too late for anything to fight, attacker or defender.

Either. Pile in and consolidation both happen on a per unit basis. You pick a unit, go through all the steps up to and including consolidate for that unit and then another unit is selected.

Example: I control unit A and my opponent controls B and C.

Unit A starts the fight phase within 1 inch of B. I pick Unit A and Unit A fights unit B. I roll really well and completely wipe out Unit B. Unit A then uses its consolidate move to move with 1 inch of Unit C. It's now time for another unit to be selected. Unit C now meets the criteria to be selected to fight. When it's my opponents turn to select a unit he can choose Unit C to fight.

I'm not sure the unit is still in the fight phase after it consolidates.

You're incorrect. The fight phase hasn't ended. Thy can indeed fight twice in this instance.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You're incorrect. The fight phase hasn't ended. Thy can indeed fight twice in this instance.

Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase

That's from the core rules. So your Berzerkers would consolidate before their second fight, but they would not have any legal targets. They could be fought against, though, by the defender. So I was wrong about that. Interesting.

Not sure why people are still getting confused by this.

Consolidation is part of each units process of fighting (so happens right after each particular unit fights), not at the end of the fight phase.

So yes, when a unit consolidates within 4" of an enemy unit, if that enemy unit hasn't fought already that fight phase (or has the ability to fight an additional time), then the enemy will be able to declare a fight against the unit that has consolidated near them.

And the reverse is true as well. In the case of Khorne Bezerkers (or other units which can fight more than once), you can consolidate within 4" of another enemy unit and then choose to fight against that new enemy unit, with the huge caveat that if the unit declared a charge that turn, it can only attack units that it declared a charge against.

For Zerkers to hit multiple units you need to declare the target units in the charge phase.

EG:

Two units of 10 guardsmen, one behind the other. The Beserkers declare a charge against both, knowing that they can probably wipe the first 10 man squad.

Both squads Overwatch and do diddly to the Zerkers.

Zerkers charge into the first squad, then activate in the fight phase. They proceed to Own the guardsmen killing all 10. They then consolidate 3 inches into the second squad then deactivate.

The 10 remaining guardsment activate, and feeling brave, Pile in and try to assault the zerkers, Killing one.

After the Guardsmen have finished the Zerkers Acviate for the second time. becuase the squad they were engaged with was a charge target, they can attack them fully, still keeping the bonus's they gain for charging. It doesnt go well for the guardsmen. the Zerkers Consolidate 3 inches.

 Marmatag wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You're incorrect. The fight phase hasn't ended. Thy can indeed fight twice in this instance.

Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase

That's from the core rules. So your Berzerkers would consolidate before their second fight, but they would not have any legal targets. They could be fought against, though, by the defender. So I was wrong about that. Interesting.

Bolded the bit you missed.
In the instant case they didn't charge that turn.

Sharazad87 wrote:
For Zerkers to hit multiple units you need to declare the target units in the charge phase.

EG:

Two units of 10 guardsmen, one behind the other. The Beserkers declare a charge against both, knowing that they can probably wipe the first 10 man squad.

Both squads Overwatch and do diddly to the Zerkers.

Zerkers charge into the first squad, then activate in the fight phase. They proceed to Own the guardsmen killing all 10. They then consolidate 3 inches into the second squad then deactivate.

The 10 remaining guardsment activate, and feeling brave, Pile in and try to assault the zerkers, Killing one.

After the Guardsmen have finished the Zerkers Acviate for the second time. becuase the squad they were engaged with was a charge target, they can attack them fully, still keeping the bonus's they gain for charging. It doesnt go well for the guardsmen. the Zerkers Consolidate 3 inches.

This is the way to do it (if you're playing with Bezerkers), especially as generally speaking overwatch fire tends to be pretty ineffectual. However, you do have to remember that you are limited to declaring charges only against enemy units within 12" of your charging unit, which can definitely be a limiting factor for this tactic.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You're incorrect. The fight phase hasn't ended. Thy can indeed fight twice in this instance.

Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase

That's from the core rules. So your Berzerkers would consolidate before their second fight, but they would not have any legal targets. They could be fought against, though, by the defender. So I was wrong about that. Interesting.

Bolded the bit you missed.
In the instant case they didn't charge that turn.

Unit of Zerkers charges unit A. They kill unit A, and pile into unit B. I thought this was the scenario? The one i just wrote they cannot attack unit B. If they start a turn engaged with unit A then yeah, since they didn't charge, they could consolidate and fight again.

 yakface wrote:

Sharazad87 wrote:
For Zerkers to hit multiple units you need to declare the target units in the charge phase.

EG:

Two units of 10 guardsmen, one behind the other. The Beserkers declare a charge against both, knowing that they can probably wipe the first 10 man squad.

Both squads Overwatch and do diddly to the Zerkers.

Zerkers charge into the first squad, then activate in the fight phase. They proceed to Own the guardsmen killing all 10. They then consolidate 3 inches into the second squad then deactivate.

The 10 remaining guardsment activate, and feeling brave, Pile in and try to assault the zerkers, Killing one.

After the Guardsmen have finished the Zerkers Acviate for the second time. becuase the squad they were engaged with was a charge target, they can attack them fully, still keeping the bonus's they gain for charging. It doesnt go well for the guardsmen. the Zerkers Consolidate 3 inches.

This is the way to do it (if you're playing with Bezerkers), especially as generally speaking overwatch fire tends to be pretty ineffectual. However, you do have to remember that you are limited to declaring charges only against enemy units within 12" of your charging unit, which can definitely be a limiting factor for this tactic.

Yup. Without that 12" caveat Zerker's could move upto 18" in an assault phase :O (using the CSM stratagem on them)

From the Warhammer 40,000 8th edition FAQ:

Q: If a unit has an ability that allows it to fight twice in the Fight phase (e.g. Berzerkers), at what point during the Fight phase do they fight for the second time?

A: Treat each time the unit is able to fight as a separate unit selected to fight for all purposes.

So, if such a unit charged this turn, it will fight both times before any units that did not charge. If the unit did not charge this turn, then, after all units that did charge have fought, you can select this unit to fight with, then your opponent can select a unit to fight with, then you can select your unit to fight with for the second time (you need not consecutively use both of the unit’s opportunities to fight – unless of course there are no other eligible units to select to fight with).

So yes, you can consolidate between fighting the first time and the second.

Sharazad87 wrote:

Yup. Without that 12" caveat Zerker's could move upto 18" in an assault phase :O (using the CSM stratagem on them)

30". 12" charge + 3* (3" pile in + 3" consolidate).

Sharazad87 wrote:
Yup. Without that 12" caveat Zerker's could move upto 18" in an assault phase :O (using the CSM stratagem on them)

They can move a whole hell of a lot further than 18"!

12" charge. 3" pile-in. 3" consolidation. Then attacking another unit: 3" pile-in & 3" consolidation. Then using the Fury of Khorne stratagem: 3" pile-in & 3" consolidation.

So that's 30" of potential movement with the charge & fight phases combined when a unit can fight 3 times.

Sharazad87 wrote:
For Zerkers to hit multiple units you need to declare the target units in the charge phase.

EG:

Two units of 10 guardsmen, one behind the other. The Beserkers declare a charge against both, knowing that they can probably wipe the first 10 man squad.

Both squads Overwatch and do diddly to the Zerkers.

Zerkers charge into the first squad, then activate in the fight phase. They proceed to Own the guardsmen killing all 10. They then consolidate 3 inches into the second squad then deactivate.

The 10 remaining guardsment activate, and feeling brave, Pile in and try to assault the zerkers, Killing one.

After the Guardsmen have finished the Zerkers Acviate for the second time. becuase the squad they were engaged with was a charge target, they can attack them fully, still keeping the bonus's they gain for charging. It doesnt go well for the guardsmen. the Zerkers Consolidate 3 inches.

Can you legally declare a charge against a unit you cannot make it into close combat with? One that is more than 12" away, or one that is bubble wrapped by another unit, for example?

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Can you legally declare a charge against a unit you cannot make it into close combat with? One that is more than 12" away, or one that is bubble wrapped by another unit, for example?

The 12" limitation is in the rulebook, set in stone. You can't break that (barring some future ability that allows a specific unit to do otherwise).

Any enemy unit within 12" is a legal target to declare, even if your unit can't (currently) reach them because of intervening units and/or terrain.

 yakface wrote:

Sharazad87 wrote:
Yup. Without that 12" caveat Zerker's could move upto 18" in an assault phase :O (using the CSM stratagem on them)

They can move a whole hell of a lot further than 18"!

12" charge. 3" pile-in. 3" consolidation. Then attacking another unit: 3" pile-in & 3" consolidation. Then using the Fury of Khorne stratagem: 3" pile-in & 3" consolidation.

So that's 30" of potential movement with the charge & fight phases combined when a unit can fight 3 times.

I said assault phase Granted you said both the charge and assault phase

3+3X3 = 18" Plus a 12 inch charge. Yup. Scary :O

Ok. So looks like the consensus seems to agree with my thinking.

Thanks Chaps its been bothering me for a week!

Didn't think of the declaring charge on units behind the 1st target. Could be worth doing vs Tau as they can supporting fire anyway

Sharazad87 wrote:

 yakface wrote:

Sharazad87 wrote:
Yup. Without that 12" caveat Zerker's could move upto 18" in an assault phase :O (using the CSM stratagem on them)

They can move a whole hell of a lot further than 18"!

12" charge. 3" pile-in. 3" consolidation. Then attacking another unit: 3" pile-in & 3" consolidation. Then using the Fury of Khorne stratagem: 3" pile-in & 3" consolidation.

So that's 30" of potential movement with the charge & fight phases combined when a unit can fight 3 times.

I said assault phase Granted you said both the charge and assault phase

3+3X3 = 18" Plus a 12 inch charge. Yup. Scary :O

Well, only if all the units you choose to fight with are all within 12" of the zerkers original position, and they all got to overwatch. But if you ever got within 1" of a unit that was outside 12" of the zerkers first position, they cannot attack it.