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Has anybody been able to find/see a decent use for these guys? Love the model but the rules offer nothing

I assume you mean the new Primaris Reiver Squads? These are the new hypermobile unit that can either deep strike or scout move, which includes scouting from your opponent's edge of the table. These are your deep field objective grabbers, your backfield terror troops that disrupt your opponent's plan. Between these guys, Aggressors, and Inceptors, you don't really need any other Primaris infantry.

SJ

I'm using them for AL Truescale+ marines. Does this count?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I assume you mean the new Primaris Reiver Squads? These are the new hypermobile unit that can either deep strike or scout move, which includes scouting from your opponent's edge of the table. These are your deep field objective grabbers, your backfield terror troops that disrupt your opponent's plan. Between these guys, Aggressors, and Inceptors, you don't really need any other Primaris infantry.

SJ

Definitely objective cappers. Not so sure on the terror troops though, if you drop them in to hit a back line most likely you'll fail your charge (since charging has only a 25% success rate even with optimal positioning.) leaving them sitting there to easily get wiped out on your enemies turn by what you were hoping to charge. And even if you do make that 25% charge you're hitting at S4 0AP, granted 3 attacks but will wiff against anything with an armor save. They can't even throw their grenade when they deepstrike in, if they could that tactic would be much more valid, because when you fail your charge at least one unit would have a slightly lower chance of deleting them before your next turn.

The way I see it they're good either as a cheap 100 point unit to get in the way of anything coming after your shooty units, or to drop into cover with carbines to cap an objective.

Well reivers with carbines seem to be the same as intercessors with auto bolt rifles, just for 3 points less and with silly edgy masks on (or badass masks, if you like that sort of thing). They are scary and have grenades that make them harder to hit, rather than the option for auxiliary grenade launchers and power swords on the sergeants.

I don’t think I’d put them into a repressor, because a repressor costs almost as much as two whole units of them. Instead I’d deep strike them. Grav chutes all the way.

As with many things in the marine codex, unfortunately reivers aren’t always best for the chapters they “should” work best with. So for example Black Templars aren’t known for creeping about in a silly mask trying to frighten people, but their reroll to charge distances would be really handy for deep striking reivers. On the other hand raven guard are all about creeping around the bushes, but they are so good at it that they may as well have aggressors sneak up on people instead.

I play imperial fists, and actually a squad or two of reivers with carbines would be fairly good for my army – I think. It’s just a little bit hard to justify them when compared to aggressors, which have slightly more dakka and power fists. “Not a bad source of S4 shooting” just isn’t a sufficiently compelling reason for me to include a unit in my army.

Use them to shoot the enemy, and also toss grenades that deny overwatch and reduce shooting ability so that your other squads can charge more effectively. You don't have to charge the Reivers themselves to do so, meaning they can continue shooting at something else or toss another shock grenade next turn if you need.

Yeah not sure how i want to build them yet.

I absolutely love the grav chute model wise.

but that deployment style makes the grenade semi useless so no charging bonus. makes me want to go shooting instead.

but then as good as shooting is its wasting the extra attacks they naturally get.

When equipped for shooting, they are a generalist unit that's decent at both shooting and assault but not spectactular at either. So if you're using them that way, you need to adjust your tactics appropriately. Either way, the grenades are fantastic if you can deploy them. Used on a shooty unit, they deny overwatch and make the enemy take -1 to hit even if they have an ability to fall back and fire (like guard and ultramarines), and used on an assault unit, the -1 to hit also applies in the fight phase, drastically reducing a dedicated melee unit's damage output.

Grappling Hooks allows you to ignore terrain for the most part.

If I'm reading the rules correctly, you can charge units not in line of sight, and if you do so you don't take overwatch. So if you play things right, you can get overwatch free charges using good positioning, assuming you have the terrain for it.

Thing is, they already deny overwatch with their grenades.

 Melissia wrote:
Thing is, they already deny overwatch with their grenades.

Only if charging from 6 or less. Shame really because if they had a range of 10 it'd be a really interesting unit.

If their grenades had a range of 10 they would be an overpowered auto-take unit. That's a really bad idea.

they're a unit that would facilitate a style of play that space marines don't really do. At least vanilla marines. They are an assault support and chaff killer unit. They deny overwatch and weaken enemy shots, and then put our a good number of attacks, and against the units you want them to fight, they are decently sturdy.

They might work well with a CP heavy raven guard list for that first turn set up rush.

I like the potential combo with Raven Guard. Use Strike From the Shadows to set them up where they, after their move, will be in Shock Grenade range. You then use Shrike and any other jump pack equipped stuff to drop in and assault free of overwatch. Shrike gives the assault distance re-rolls on the jump troops, so getting there on a drop is more reliable.

Can also have the jump pack equipped stuff on the table ahead of time and taking advantage of the same stratagem as above. They don't have to be terribly close though, with the 12" move you will get. Hop forward, drop in Shrike to be within 6" and then re-roll assault distances at what hopefully be better then the 9" you would have been if you dropped the unit in instead. IN the first example, the Reivers alone won't really dissuade anyone from moving in on them a bit. But having some assault oriented stuff behind them may.


All just depends on what options are presented/given between terrain and deployment.

 ultimentra wrote:
If their grenades had a range of 10 they would be an overpowered auto-take unit. That's a really bad idea.

How? You first need to hit with it, and big whoop. If your afraid of reivers charging you, then your army has a lot of other issues. they take up an elite slot, which most of SM stuff that's worth taking is an Elite. The other option would be a once a game shot. Anything to make them worth taking.

str00dles1 wrote:
How? You first need to hit with it, and big whoop. If your afraid of reivers charging you, then your army has a lot of other issues. they take up an elite slot, which most of SM stuff that's worth taking is an Elite. The other option would be a once a game shot. Anything to make them worth taking.

Throwing shock grenades can be for the benefit of a separate unit charging, too.

Nothing says it has to be the Reivers doing the assaulting nor that only they gain the benefit of the grenade effects.

So no, its not the Reivers that are the thing to be overly concerned with. Its who they are combo'ing with that is.

Given how Detachments work and the scale ability of them, Force Org location really isn't much of a factor.

Good flanker unit. 20 shots at range 24" on some pretty tough models is kind of a bargain. If they draw fire - they did their job.

Right. Reivers don't actually have to assault to give the throwing army the benefit of shock grenades.

In fact there's scenarios where you'd want reivers to throw the grenade but not assault.

It's a nice card to have in your deck - they would be super useful vs wraithgard with D scythes or any unit with heavy flamers really.

Im starting to think i want to just split them as 5man with deep strike and bolters

and the other 5 as grapanel and CC weapons, placing an objective near an edge as bait.

Mo grenades thrown that way

What about a lot of them? I'm thinking around 40-50, enough to hit critical threat mass. That's a lot of wounds and attacks, with BT or RG tactics more than a few will make it to combat t1. And at 2k points it still leaves a lot of room for backup or ranged support.

Think it could work, or is it still not worth it?

it seems the black templars could use those guys too, maybe set up a turn 1 charge with them as the crusader squads come in land raiders, and by next turn they could retreat for the real stars of the show, the crusader squads and such. sure scouts can do the same thing, but the reivers could be more durable, and once they get up close this way they can start throwing the grenades around like candy.

 ultimentra wrote:
If their grenades had a range of 10 they would be an overpowered auto-take unit. That's a really bad idea.

Why because they could make one single unit slightly less likely to do as much damage? Seems pretty middling to me and balanced. As it stands their grenades sound cool, yet in practice will be used exactly never.

Drahken_40k wrote:
Has anybody been able to find/see a decent use for these guys? Love the model but the rules offer nothing

I just played against some Reivers. They were pretty dang hearty. Kinda useful I would think for slinking to and holding some objectives after the primary parts of the force are engaging the enemy. The build will certainly determine their value to an extent.

Colgado wrote:
What about a lot of them? I'm thinking around 40-50, enough to hit critical threat mass. That's a lot of wounds and attacks, with BT or RG tactics more than a few will make it to combat t1. And at 2k points it still leaves a lot of room for backup or ranged support.

Think it could work, or is it still not worth it?

Interesting suggestion. Spamming reivers or intercessors seems like it would work quite well. I think I mostly prefer bolt rifles to carbines, but both have their uses.

Danny slag wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
If their grenades had a range of 10 they would be an overpowered auto-take unit. That's a really bad idea.

Why because they could make one single unit slightly less likely to do as much damage? Seems pretty middling to me and balanced. As it stands their grenades sound cool, yet in practice will be used exactly never.

Well, some shooty armies gain a lot of charge protection from flamers in overwatch, which would not be available for any units hit by a Reiver nade. Not much counter-play flexibility if the nades were 10''. Seems like a very easy and cheap counter to those anti-charge units/models you want protecting your weaker ones. Unless the Reiver player rolled really poorly when hitting, your charge protection unit is bypassed pretty quickly. I guess that's kind of a compelling hard counter, but it seems like it might be a bit imbalanced.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to come around to your idea. Perhaps it isn't as powerful as it seems.

Lemondish wrote:

Danny slag wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
If their grenades had a range of 10 they would be an overpowered auto-take unit. That's a really bad idea.

Why because they could make one single unit slightly less likely to do as much damage? Seems pretty middling to me and balanced. As it stands their grenades sound cool, yet in practice will be used exactly never.

Well, some shooty armies gain a lot of charge protection from flamers in overwatch, which would not be available for any units hit by a Reiver nade. Not much counter-play flexibility if the nades were 10''. Seems like a very easy and cheap counter to those anti-charge units/models you want protecting your weaker ones. Unless the Reiver player rolled really poorly when hitting, your charge protection unit is bypassed pretty quickly. I guess that's kind of a compelling hard counter, but it seems like it might be a bit imbalanced.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to come around to your idea. Perhaps it isn't as powerful as it seems.

I think if they deployed closer than 9, or if more than one could be thrown per turn then it would surely be overpowered. I just think it would be a nice risk reward. You deepstrike in and have a 25% chance to charge something, if you succeed it's good times, if you fail the charge you've reduced the return fire a little bit, but only being able to hit one unit you have to choose wisely. Or you can drop them in and granade a unit that something else is about to charge. It feels like a good trade off, 100 points to stop an overwatch, most likely suicidally, but very worth that trade in the right circumstances, or a waste of points if executed poorly.
Right now I want to take them, but you have to drop in, survive a turn sitting right next to an enemy, so the following turn they can get close enough to use a grenade.

Would be interesting to play test at least.

The good thing about them is the 9-10 points per hp price and the polyvalence of the gun version.

You want to moove and shoot or even retreat and shoot. You can do it. You want to close it quickly with decent firepower then decent melee/utility you can do it again.

Also per 5 as anti overwatch squads.

You guys do realize that Shock Grenades are Grenade D3s, so on average, you get to make 2 attempts to hit with them, and potentially hit multiple units.

6" range is fine. Use a transport to get them in close, pop them in cover and weather a turn of shooting, or do something. But being able to drop in accurately 9" from an enemy anywhere and cancel overwatch is too much.

Unfortunately, the only transport they get access to right now is the Repulsor. Which is basically a land raider on an anti-gravity drive and costs 279 points bare minimum (cheapest option) and and ranges up to 344 points.