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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Dear DakkaDakka forum members,

I am playing a tournament in a few weeks and fielding a deathwatch army. As far as i'm aware, the tournament will be allowing latest FAQ and new SM codex.

The current status of the Imperium 1 index is that DW armies rely upon the unit cards for various units from the generic space marine section, whilst other units have their own custom unit cards listed under DW. This was initially quite confusing as a lot of cross-referencing was required to the current restrictions for DW and what point costs to use.

Now that the new 8e SM codex is released, it isn't clear to me whether a similar process will happen for the new DW codex to be released at some point presumably later this year. It is also confusing as GW have recently produced a very brief PDF to explain that DW (et al) can use primaris marines but with various restrictions (such as no special ammo for primaris interwhatevers).

The following are some questions I can think of (which I think are also relevant to other SM faction variants in the near future), I would be grateful for some help with for my upcoming tournament:

1. Do I need to cross-reference the units which were reliant upon the generic space marine entries in the index to the new codex for things such as point costs, etc.? (I understand power fists are costed differently for example.)
2. Can a DW army benefit from the 'Defenders of Humanity' special rule for troops?
3. Can a DW army use any of the SM psychic powers or generic stratagems from the new SM codex?

If the answer is purely "No, wait for your index", then it seems like the other hitherto less important factions, that I will be at a disadvantage in matched play for the near future. The stratagems and chapter tactics seem very powerful. This isn't great for the meta scene and surely puts us back in the slow power creep process for new codexes and formations which plagued 7th edition?
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






DW use the Index and the rules in the index only. You don't get any options or points reductions from the SM codex. Page 131 : Note that there are several Space Marine Chapters – such as the Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Grey Knights – that deviate significantly from the Codex in terms of organisation and fighting style. The rules and abilities for these Chapters (and any successors they may have) will be detailed in their own codexes.
If the answer is purely "No, wait for your index", then it seems like the other hitherto less important factions, that I will be at a disadvantage in matched play for the near future.
Welcome to modern Games Worshop, where conversions are illegal and unpopular armies get the shaft. Luckily you'll only be screwed for 6-8 months at the most.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/01 19:10:46


 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




I think you're misunderstanding him somewhat. The question is whether the DW entries in the Indexes that are not actual entries but are instead references to Space Marine entries now, retroactively, become references to the same entries in Codex: Space Marines.

I thought I remembered Warhammer Community saying you could do either, but I'm on my phone. I'd say this is something you need to ask your TO.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Audustum wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding him somewhat. The question is whether the DW entries in the Indexes that are not actual entries but are instead references to Space Marine entries now, retroactively, become references to the same entries in Codex: Space Marines.

I thought I remembered Warhammer Community saying you could do either, but I'm on my phone. I'd say this is something you need to ask your TO.
They aren't. They are linked to the entries in the Index, not the codex. It even lists page numbers. Because the name of the actual entry changes, you can't even argue that they become the ones in the codex because "Wolf Lord" doesn't have a more recent rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 18:38:14


 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding him somewhat. The question is whether the DW entries in the Indexes that are not actual entries but are instead references to Space Marine entries now, retroactively, become references to the same entries in Codex: Space Marines.

I thought I remembered Warhammer Community saying you could do either, but I'm on my phone. I'd say this is something you need to ask your TO.
They aren't. They are linked to the entries in the Index, not the codex. It even lists page numbers. Because the name of the actual entry changes, you can't even argue that they become the ones in the codex because "Wolf Lord" doesn't have a more recent rule.


You're wrong. I found it. Have cold or I'd be less blunt, sorry:

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

They don't say DW specifically but I don't know why it'd be different.
He can use Codex: Space Marine entries if he wants.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/01 18:50:32


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for your responses.

This seems to imply then that they will have separate repeat entries across codexes for core units then. The index does specifically rename 'Vanguard Veterans' to 'Deathwatch Vanguard Veterans' for example.

Edit: Well maybe not given the statement above... Hopefully they will repeat those units with the specific restrictions in the new codex.. I'd rather not have to purchase two hardback books full of fluff and carry them around to tournaments.

For now it seems there are mixed purposes. If we can use some of the data sheets, then what about the psychic powers and other benefits such as 'Defenders of humanity'?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 18:52:00


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Audustum wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding him somewhat. The question is whether the DW entries in the Indexes that are not actual entries but are instead references to Space Marine entries now, retroactively, become references to the same entries in Codex: Space Marines.

I thought I remembered Warhammer Community saying you could do either, but I'm on my phone. I'd say this is something you need to ask your TO.
They aren't. They are linked to the entries in the Index, not the codex. It even lists page numbers. Because the name of the actual entry changes, you can't even argue that they become the ones in the codex because "Wolf Lord" doesn't have a more recent rule.


You're wrong. I found it. Have cold or I'd be less blunt, sorry:

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

They don't say DW specifically but I don't know why it'd be different.
He can use Codex: Space Marine entries if he wants.
Except that isn't what it is referring to. It means you use the Rhino rules from the Codex, not the index. If you want to use a Wolf Lord, you use the latest rules for a Wolf Lord, which say to use the Captain datasheet from the Index. This hasn't changed. Unless you can point to a "Wolf Lord" entry in the SM codex, you're stuck with the Index version and Index points costs.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
I think you're misunderstanding him somewhat. The question is whether the DW entries in the Indexes that are not actual entries but are instead references to Space Marine entries now, retroactively, become references to the same entries in Codex: Space Marines.

I thought I remembered Warhammer Community saying you could do either, but I'm on my phone. I'd say this is something you need to ask your TO.
They aren't. They are linked to the entries in the Index, not the codex. It even lists page numbers. Because the name of the actual entry changes, you can't even argue that they become the ones in the codex because "Wolf Lord" doesn't have a more recent rule.


You're wrong. I found it. Have cold or I'd be less blunt, sorry:

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

They don't say DW specifically but I don't know why it'd be different.
He can use Codex: Space Marine entries if he wants.
Except that isn't what it is referring to. It means you use the Rhino rules from the Codex, not the index. If you want to use a Wolf Lord, you use the latest rules for a Wolf Lord, which say to use the Captain datasheet from the Index. This hasn't changed. Unless you can point to a "Wolf Lord" entry in the SM codex, you're stuck with the Index version and Index points costs.


Literally no one else in this thread was talking about the tangent you are now going off on. His #1 question is about cross-references units that appear in the Index and the Codex.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Audustum wrote:
Literally no one else in this thread was talking about the tangent you are now going off on. His #1 question is about cross-references units that appear in the Index and the Codex.
"1. Do I need to cross-reference the units which were reliant upon the generic space marine entries in the index to the new codex for things such as point costs, etc.? (I understand power fists are costed differently for example.)"

To me anyway this is talking about things like Wolf Lords or Deathwatch Captains. If not that, what other units is he talking about?
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Literally no one else in this thread was talking about the tangent you are now going off on. His #1 question is about cross-references units that appear in the Index and the Codex.
"1. Do I need to cross-reference the units which were reliant upon the generic space marine entries in the index to the new codex for things such as point costs, etc.? (I understand power fists are costed differently for example.)"

To me anyway this is talking about things like Wolf Lords or Deathwatch Captains. If not that, what other units is he talking about?


Ah there's the issue. The index also tells DW to look at Space Marines for Chaplains, Dreadnoughts, Drop Pods, Laind Raiders (of all types), Razorbacks, Rhinos and Librarians. I believe those are what he was referring to.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Audustum wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Literally no one else in this thread was talking about the tangent you are now going off on. His #1 question is about cross-references units that appear in the Index and the Codex.
"1. Do I need to cross-reference the units which were reliant upon the generic space marine entries in the index to the new codex for things such as point costs, etc.? (I understand power fists are costed differently for example.)"

To me anyway this is talking about things like Wolf Lords or Deathwatch Captains. If not that, what other units is he talking about?


Ah there's the issue. The index also tells DW to look at Space Marines for Chaplains, Dreadnoughts, Drop Pods, Laind Raiders (of all types), Razorbacks, Rhinos and Librarians. I believe those are what he was referring to.
Yeah, for those there is no problem using the codex, because you need to use the most recent rules, which the codex has for the unit called Chaplain, Land Raider etc. The codex doesn't have an entry for "Watch Captain", so you follow what it says in the index and to use the datasheet from page 12 of the index.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Literally no one else in this thread was talking about the tangent you are now going off on. His #1 question is about cross-references units that appear in the Index and the Codex.
"1. Do I need to cross-reference the units which were reliant upon the generic space marine entries in the index to the new codex for things such as point costs, etc.? (I understand power fists are costed differently for example.)"

To me anyway this is talking about things like Wolf Lords or Deathwatch Captains. If not that, what other units is he talking about?


Ah there's the issue. The index also tells DW to look at Space Marines for Chaplains, Dreadnoughts, Drop Pods, Laind Raiders (of all types), Razorbacks, Rhinos and Librarians. I believe those are what he was referring to.
Yeah, for those there is no problem using the codex, because you need to use the most recent rules, which the codex has for the unit called Chaplain, Land Raider etc. The codex doesn't have an entry for "Watch Captain", so you follow what it says in the index and to use the datasheet from page 12 of the index.


Yeah, that's true.
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

Audustum wrote:
Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

They don't say DW specifically but I don't know why it'd be different.
He can use Codex: Space Marine entries if he wants.


Okay, now I'm completely confused. The above article definitely does say that you can use the units from the new SM codex for the other codex chapters. Yet in a different GW community article on codexes in general, they say pretty much exactly the opposite:

If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?
You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released. Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online.

From here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/


So what the hell GW?!?



I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Say hello to the new GW, same as the old GW.

At this point I wish they would just be downright honest and not have bothered with the "Legacy" options in the indexes, or at least been 100% clear in saying "If you want to use a legacy option, you use only the index rules and points costs, otherwise use the codex. Want to have a Techmarine on a Bike with a Power Fist? That'll be 20 points please."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/01 23:08:50


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 yakface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

They don't say DW specifically but I don't know why it'd be different.
He can use Codex: Space Marine entries if he wants.


Okay, now I'm completely confused. The above article definitely does say that you can use the units from the new SM codex for the other codex chapters. Yet in a different GW community article on codexes in general, they say pretty much exactly the opposite:

If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?
You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released. Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online.

From here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/


So what the hell GW?!?




It sounds more like they are saying "you dont have to" get the codex to keep playing and anything new or up coming you can just use the leaflet in the kit boxs.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




The only sense I can make of it is that they're saying it's the players' choice. Hence the "don't have to".
   
Made in nz
Sister Oh-So Repentia





They have, of course, gone for the most customer-friendly option. Imagine if they said:

"BA/DA/SW/DW players NEED to use the latest datasheets/rules/points found in Codex: Space Marines"

The response would be "So you want me to buy an expensive book that becomes redundant the moment my codex comes out? No thanks!"

Or if they had said "BA/DA/SW/DW players NEED to use the Index."

The response would be "wahh wahh why do Codex chapters get all thew new rules my faction is neglected. GW doesn't care if you're not a smurf player"

Instead they have said you can use either, which is great. Although I spare a thought for those poor souls at Battlescribe in charge of programming these factions...
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

Audustum wrote:
The only sense I can make of it is that they're saying it's the players' choice. Hence the "don't have to".

Yeah, that's clearly the takeaway if you read both articles together.

HOWEVER, these two articles were published over 2 weeks apart from each other and have quickly been buried on GW's community page. If someone were to read just one or the other, they'd have a totally different viewpoint.

Plus, even if it is the player's choice whether to use the new codex units or not, that still leaves everyone in a position where one player's Space Wolves/Dark Angels/Blood Angels could be behaving slightly differently from another player's army of the same chapter, simply because they're each using a different source...that's really bad IMHO and makes it nigh impossible for a tournament organizer, for example, to check people's lists for validity.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/02 00:35:12


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 yakface wrote:
Audustum wrote:
The only sense I can make of it is that they're saying it's the players' choice. Hence the "don't have to".

Yeah, that's clearly the takeaway if you read both articles together.

HOWEVER, these two articles were published over 2 weeks apart from each other and have quickly been buried on GW's community page. If someone were to read just one or the other, they'd have a totally different viewpoint.

Plus, even if it is the player's choice whether to use the new codex units or not, that still leaves everyone in a position where one player's Space Wolves/Dark Angels/Blood Angels could be behaving slightly differently from another player's army of the same chapter, simply because they're each using a different source...that's really bad IMHO and makes it nigh impossible for a tournament organizer, for example, to check people's lists for validity.





I am completely on board with you there. For instance, Index Terminator Librarians can take Storm Shields. Codex Librarians cannot. That's a pretty big change and it's just one I happened to notice.

I like GW's intent, but maybe they should've given consistent statements, such as "you may use options from both". That way TO's would be clued in to pick one in advance too.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






No Model, No Rules. If you don't like it play a different game that encourages conversions. That's GW's new line and I am afraid we have to live with it.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 BaconCatBug wrote:
No Model, No Rules. If you don't like it play a different game that encourages conversions. That's GW's new line and I am afraid we have to live with it.


It's sometimes the line and sometimes not. GK are apparently getting the rules for a Grandmaster in Dreadknights Armor and WD showed us how to do the conversion.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





you should feel free to


That's not the words of someone giving a concise ruling

Those are the words of someone saying along the lines of "Whatever, just play your models however you want"


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




Audustum wrote:
For instance, Index Terminator Librarians can take Storm Shields. Codex Librarians cannot. That's a pretty big change and it's just one I happened to notice.

I like GW's intent, but maybe they should've given consistent statements, such as "you may use options from both". That way TO's would be clued in to pick one in advance too.


If you want to use a librarian with a storm shield you can, though right? Due to their statement saying if an option doesn't exist in the codex you can use the index option, then pay the latest points (which might be in the codex)?
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Drager wrote:
Audustum wrote:
For instance, Index Terminator Librarians can take Storm Shields. Codex Librarians cannot. That's a pretty big change and it's just one I happened to notice.

I like GW's intent, but maybe they should've given consistent statements, such as "you may use options from both". That way TO's would be clued in to pick one in advance too.


If you want to use a librarian with a storm shield you can, though right? Due to their statement saying if an option doesn't exist in the codex you can use the index option, then pay the latest points (which might be in the codex)?
No, because the unit Librarian in Terminator Armour does exist in the codex, so you have to use the most up to date rules, which means no storm shield option.
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Drager wrote:
Audustum wrote:
For instance, Index Terminator Librarians can take Storm Shields. Codex Librarians cannot. That's a pretty big change and it's just one I happened to notice.

I like GW's intent, but maybe they should've given consistent statements, such as "you may use options from both". That way TO's would be clued in to pick one in advance too.


If you want to use a librarian with a storm shield you can, though right? Due to their statement saying if an option doesn't exist in the codex you can use the index option, then pay the latest points (which might be in the codex)?
No, because the unit Librarian in Terminator Armour does exist in the codex, so you have to use the most up to date rules, which means no storm shield option.


Your interpretation is in direct opposition to the example they give of using alternate weapon options on a dreadnought, isn't it? Dreadnought is in the codex, but you can still outfit it with the options from the index. This is an analogous situation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/02 13:31:36


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Drager wrote:
Your interpretation is in direct opposition to the example they give of using alternate weapon options on a dreadnought.
And is 100% consistent with the later statement, see yakface's posts.
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Drager wrote:
Your interpretation is in direct opposition to the example they give of using alternate weapon options on a dreadnought.
And is 100% consistent with the later statement, see yakface's posts.


I've read both Yakfaces posts and the statements I think you are referring to. They don't say what you seem to be claiming. I can't see something referencing the use of old options in a Codex: SM force by Yakface in this thread, Yakface's posts seem concerned with none Codex: SM forces.

Can you quote the restriction you are referencing? Maybe I am missing it, but from what I can see you are mistaken.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/02 13:52:12


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Drager wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Drager wrote:
Your interpretation is in direct opposition to the example they give of using alternate weapon options on a dreadnought.
And is 100% consistent with the later statement, see yakface's posts.


I've read both Yakfaces posts and the statements I think you are referring to. They don't say what you seem to be claiming. I can't see something referencing the use of old options in a Codex: SM force by Yakface in this thread, Yakface's posts seem concerned with none Codex: SM forces.

Can you quote the restriction you are referencing? Maybe I am missing it, but from what I can see you are mistaken.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Can I combine units from the index and a codex into one army?
The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.
The line "Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version." to me clearly means that you cannot use the index for any unit that has an entry in the codex. You can only use things in the index that are NOT in the codex, such as the Imperial Space Marine, or Terminus Ultra.
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




 BaconCatBug wrote:
Drager wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Drager wrote:
Your interpretation is in direct opposition to the example they give of using alternate weapon options on a dreadnought.
And is 100% consistent with the later statement, see yakface's posts.


I've read both Yakfaces posts and the statements I think you are referring to. They don't say what you seem to be claiming. I can't see something referencing the use of old options in a Codex: SM force by Yakface in this thread, Yakface's posts seem concerned with none Codex: SM forces.

Can you quote the restriction you are referencing? Maybe I am missing it, but from what I can see you are mistaken.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Can I combine units from the index and a codex into one army?
The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.
The line "Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version." to me clearly means that you cannot use the index for any unit that has an entry in the codex. You can only use things in the index that are NOT in the codex, such as the Imperial Space Marine, or Terminus Ultra.


As that is from the same article I quoted, presumably by the same author, then I would have to say you are misinterpreting it in light of the rest of the same article. Sure we could argue your interpretation if they didn't give an example that exactly contradicts it.

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.


A Terminator Librarian with a Storm Shield clearly falls into this category, just as a different weapon option dreadnought does. Taken together the two statements work, provided we do not take your interpretation as correct. As there is an interpretation that works without ignoring anything and one that doesn't, we should go with the one that works I think.

We can take the quote you have used above to mean that if a model, including wargear, is represented in the Codex this is the version we must use, otherwise the index is fine. This gels with the other quote and works fine. So Terminator Librarian with a Storm Shield is fine.
   
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So, does DW benefit from cheaper power fists using the SM Codex...? All DW weapon costs are clearly shared excluding the Storm Shield which is explicitly priced for DW.
   
 
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