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The rules for the Patriarch say that the Patriarch can charge even if it advances that turn. But the makes no mention of familiars. If the unit includes familiars (as intended), and advances, can the Patriarch still charge? Thanks

Tower wrote:
The rules for the Patriarch say that the Patriarch can charge even if it advances that turn. But the makes no mention of familiars. If the unit includes familiars (as intended), and advances, can the Patriarch still charge? Thanks

Looks like RaW you can't charge after advance if you have a Familiar, because the rule explicitly calls out the Patriarch and not "this unit".

Hypothetically, is it a RAW possibility that the Patriarch can charge, and the familiar not charge, as long as they can maintain coherency (if they are 2" from an enemy)? The Patriarch at least has express permission to charge when the rule book says it couldn't.

Tower wrote:
Hypothetically, is it a RAW possibility that the Patriarch can charge, and the familiar not charge, as long as they can maintain coherency (if they are 2" from an enemy)? The Patriarch at least has express permission to charge when the rule book says it couldn't.

No, that is not a possibility whatsoever. The Patriarch and the Familiar are a single unit. You don't charge individual models, you charge units.

1. Choose Unit to Charge With
Any of your units within 12" of the enemy in your Charge phase can make a charge move.

Looks like RaW you can't charge after advance if you have a Familiar, because the rule explicitly calls out the Patriarch and not "this unit".

But Patriarch is the name of the unit, so I don't think it's totally unreasonable to read the rule as applying to the unit. It's really just the "a" in the rule that throws me, and makes me think they are referring to the one model.

Tower wrote:

Looks like RaW you can't charge after advance if you have a Familiar, because the rule explicitly calls out the Patriarch and not "this unit".

But Patriarch is the name of the unit, so I don't think it's totally unreasonable to read the rule as applying to the unit. It's really just the "a" in the rule that throws me, and makes me think they are referring to the one model.

Yes, that's exactly what the "a" does.

Pretty sure the intent is not for a Familiar to remove an ability. Quirk of wording mayhaps but I'm gonna go with unintended consequence and not how it's supposed to be played.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Pretty sure the intent is not for a Familiar to remove an ability. Quirk of wording mayhaps but I'm gonna go with unintended consequence and not how it's supposed to be played.

I would say this as well.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Pretty sure the intent is not for a Familiar to remove an ability. Quirk of wording mayhaps but I'm gonna go with unintended consequence and not how it's supposed to be played.

You're constantly posting talking about an "intent" that simply doesn't exist. The rules are clear. To play any other way is cheating.

As a GSC player I wish it were not the case however the familiars do prevent the Patriarch from charging after advancing.

In short it's a trade off you get 2 extra wounds and the ability to use an additional psychic power vs the ability to advance and charge while those familiars are alive.

Also they slow him down by 2" per turn as they have a slower movement value.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Pretty sure the intent is not for a Familiar to remove an ability. Quirk of wording mayhaps but I'm gonna go with unintended consequence and not how it's supposed to be played.

You're constantly posting talking about an "intent" that simply doesn't exist. The rules are clear. To play any other way is cheating.

Playing a Patriarch as being able to Advance and Charge seems to be intended, and most reasonable souls would play it that way. The rules aren't clear... they've missed an unintended artifact of not mirroring the Swift and Deadly wording exactly from the Genestealers entry. It's pretty damn obvious that the Familiars are not designed to spoil an ability - be that guy if you like.

FWIW disagreeing with you on a couple of occasions doesn't mean I "constantly" post wrong things. Please don't deride fellow posters that way. It's OK to disagree in areas of interpretation - the only time we'd need to agree would be if we played each other. Don't see that happening ;-)