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Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Hello! I have a game verse a magnus, demon prince list with tons of brims tonight. Havent fought new demons yet so can use some advice. Thoughts on this list?


Farseer (spear) 120 (guide/doom)
Yvraine 132 (ancestors grace, word of the phoenix)

Dire Avengers (10) exarch shield/sword 187
Troupe (5) embrace and fusion x5 150
Troupe (5) embrace and fusion x5 150

Dark Reapers, exarch 180
Dark Reapers, exarch 180

Hemlock 221 (conceal/reveal)

Star weaver 99
Star weaver 99
Wave Serpent, shur cannon, shur cannon, spirit stone 153
Wave Serpent, shur cannon, shur cannon, spirit stone 153
Wave Serpent, shur cannon, bright lance, spirit stone 169

1993, 6 command points. Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 13:45:33


~Ice~
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





You've got the five points to do it. So I'd put the Crystal Targeting Matrix on the Serpent with the Brightlances.

Or rather than that.

Drop the Dire Avengers. That will free up 187 points to go with the 7 you've got left over. So 194 points.

A unit 10 Guardian Defenders with a Shuriken HWP 97 points.

So two (2) units are 194 points.

Twenty Guardians w/ HWP will give you the much needed insulation against Deep Striking units if you don't get first turn. I prefer Brightlance platforms over Shuriken Cannons, but considering that they are essentially just cannon fodder, they ought to work for their intended purpose quite alot better than the Dire Avengers.

Something else to consider is a Troupe Master for the Harlequin Troupes. The Farseer can cast Doom on a target and everyone gets to reroll to wound, and that's great, but it's one unit and it takes several things to work together to make it happen. The Troupe Master does the same thing for the Harlequins and doesn't require a Psychic check to happen.

Just my two cents. Good Luck!


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/03 19:42:14


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




Seattle Area

Have you considered combining the reapers into a single unit for greater benefit from WotP?

Froth at the top, dregs at the bottom, but the middle - excellent 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Hey! Thanks for the replies!

So you are saying take 2 units of guardians or 1 large unit?

I didn't think about combining the avengers. I was afraid for them to get caught in melee really.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/03 19:45:40


~Ice~
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Icelord wrote:
Hey! Thanks for the replies!

So you are saying take 2 units of guardians or 1 large unit?

I didn't think about combining the avengers. I was afraid for them to get caught in melee really.


Two separate units of Guardians.

I would definitely keep the Reapers as two units as well. As much as one big unit of Reapers can really benefit from WotP, it immediately becomes a huge fire magnet and what you don't lose to failed saves will most likely run in the Morale Phase. I'm speaking from experience here. Two units of five are still just as effective when shooting, and yes WotP isn't quite as good on 5 models instead of 10, but if one unit gets shot to pieces you've still got a unit close to Yvraine to cast it on instead of her just hanging in the backfield by herself. Also if you keep the units within 7" of each other, then when one of them gets destroyed it will trigger another Soulburst action in your opponents turn. This equals more shooting for the surviving Reapers.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/03 19:53:43


 
   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Ok guys! So I took some of the advice and tried this list:

Farseer (spear) 120 (guide/doom)
Yvraine 132 (ancestors grace, word of the phoenix)
Master, caress 69

Dire Avengers (10) exarch double cannon 177
Troupe (5) embrace and fusion x5 150
Troupe (5) embrace and fusion x5 150

Dark Reapers, exarch 180
Dark Reapers, exarch 180

Razorwing, 2 lance, cannon 170

Star weaver 99
Star weaver 99
Wave Serpent, shur cannon, shur cannon, spirit stone 153
Wave Serpent, shur cannon, shur cannon, spirit stone 153
Wave Serpent, shur cannon, bright lance, spirit stone 169

We play a specific scoring format here in our events (which this was a practice game for) which uses a primary, secondary, and tertiary objective. Plus FB, LB, and SLW.

He went first. but that was really a good thing as he had to lessen his castle of characters, with changling to start moving which helped me.

I ended up winning in turn 7. The primary was progressive objetives (starting turn 2 get a point for each obj you are holding). That ended 12 to 10 in my favor. Then in secondary was maelstrom cards. To a max of 9. we both had that. In tertiary it was kill models with 10+ wounds. I got 4 and he got 3. He had LB, FB, SLW and I had LB and SLW.

Slight win in my favor! Woot!

I am trying to come up with a better version though as some of the list was mediocre as could be. The razorwing was terrible... lol

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I am trying to come up with a better version though as some of the list was mediocre as could be. The razorwing was terrible... lol



Hey, Great job on pulling off a victory against Magnus and friends. It sounds like the way your group scores games is very similar to how a group I was playing with, before I moved, used to score games.

So, here are some questions to ask yourself.

Which units, other than the Razorwing, did you find to be lackluster in performance?

Which ones performed better than expected?

Which units do you feel really fit your particular style of play?

and,

Where do feel that your list was lacking? (Being able to hold obj., getting a unit to where it was needed, enough long/short range damage potential, ability to stall/thwart your opponents plans, etc.)

Using these questions, and building your list from there, should give you a great start to achieving a well rounded list that doesn't rely on gimmicks, but rather solid tactics to win games, and that's always a good thing!

Congratulations again on the win and keep posting on the updated list!

Good Luck!


   
Made in us
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






bigbaboonass wrote:

I am trying to come up with a better version though as some of the list was mediocre as could be. The razorwing was terrible... lol



Hey, Great job on pulling off a victory against Magnus and friends. It sounds like the way your group scores games is very similar to how a group I was playing with, before I moved, used to score games.

So, here are some questions to ask yourself.

Which units, other than the Razorwing, did you find to be lackluster in performance?

Well the dire avengers were only ok. Now this was expected, but still disappointing. Although their volume of fire was really nice verse the 90 brimstones... Caused a lot of morale testing on those 30 mans.
I would also say the troupe master. Only reroll to wound not to hit like most characters did very little. I know it can be good but often if they were something big I was worried about I just cast doom on them or shot them with fusion pistols.


Which ones performed better than expected?

The harle troupes. Man they were killing demon princes, slaying whole units of brimstones. Really sick with soulburst. I will say that the smite verse them was sick. He killed a whole unit with 1 smite. Ouch

Which units do you feel really fit your particular style of play?

I was really digging all the "fly" abilities and the tactical advantages of moving about. I want to stick with the speed.

and,

Where do feel that your list was lacking? (Being able to hold obj., getting a unit to where it was needed, enough long/short range damage potential, ability to stall/thwart your opponents plans, etc.)

I definitely think the lack of "numbers" was an issue. Sometimes I would have a serpent holding an objective and 2 heralds would jump over and take it away. That was frustrating for sure. Hard though in elder to get mass number since their infantry can be weaker.

Using these questions, and building your list from there, should give you a great start to achieving a well rounded list that doesn't rely on gimmicks, but rather solid tactics to win games, and that's always a good thing!

Congratulations again on the win and keep posting on the updated list!

Good Luck!


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 15:24:16


~Ice~
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Well the dire avengers were only ok. Now this was expected, but still disappointing. Although their volume of fire was really nice verse the 90 brimstones... Caused a lot of morale testing on those 30 mans.
I would also say the troupe master. Only reroll to wound not to hit like most characters did very little. I know it can be good but often if they were something big I was worried about I just cast doom on them or shot them with fusion pistols.



The harle troupes. Man they were killing demon princes, slaying whole units of brimstones. Really sick with soulburst. I will say that the smite verse them was sick. He killed a whole unit with 1 smite. Ouch


I was really digging all the "fly" abilities and the tactical advantages of moving about. I want to stick with the speed.


I definitely think the lack of "numbers" was an issue. Sometimes I would have a serpent holding an objective and 2 heralds would jump over and take it away. That was frustrating for sure. Hard though in elder to get mass number since their infantry can be weaker.



Well let's start with the top:

For 97pts you can get 10x Guardians w/ Shuriken HWP, or for 105pts you can get 10x Guardians w/ Brightlance HWP. In cover they've got the same save as the Dire Avengers in the open. They've actually got more firepower when you factor in the HWP, yes at a slightly shorter range on their basic guns, but with a HWP their range and threat factor far out weighs that of the Dire Avengers.

The Troupe Master. I understand your frustration there. I guess I've never thought about it much, I haven't really used his ability to reroll failed to wounds to replace Doom, but to rather allow me to cast Doom on a different target(One I'm planning on shooting instead of assaulting with the Harlequins). Also, I would defintely give the Troupe Master a Fusion Pistol and Harlequin's Embrace. With his 2+ to hit in shooting and assault, it's almost insane not to utilize these weapons on him.

Smite vs. Harlequins = Bad News. In this edition they are the ultimate glass hammer. I really don't know what you could do to counter this except try and make sure they're not the closest unit to a Psyker.

Things with the "Fly" rule. Speed and maneuverability have always been things the Eldar rely upon to win games. To this I will add that since you are running Ynarri, try to stick with things that will benefit from SfD, ie. Infantry and Jetbikes.

I'm not all that familiar with the Dark Eldar so I'll stick with what I know, Craftworld. I haven't playtested Swooping Hawks this edition, so no input on these guys.

However, I can testify that Warp Spiders are still one of the fastest units in the game. They will almost always be able to get to where you need them and I have never had a problem getting them in range to use their guns. When they use their WJG they gain the "Fly" rule. Their guns have also got a similar rule to the Shuriken Weapons with the exception that when they roll a 6 to wound it's -4 AP. When they appear from across the board next to an enemy unit and dump basically 20 rending shots into them, I've had several opponents take notice. If they can wipe out the unit and are within 7" you can then Soulburst and move them out of danger. This has gotten a couple of WTF?

I don't own any of the Harlequin Jetbikes(Although I'd like to get a unit of 6) and I haven't used the Craftworld Jetbikes much either, but when I have they performed well. I will also say there is absolutely no reason to ever take the Twin Shuriken Catapults over the Shuriken Cannon. The Cannon is only 2 points more per model and doubles the range and increases the strength by two at the cost of one shot. This is a no brainer.

Numbers. With the exception of inexpensive Guardian Squads(This is subjective to what you are comparing them to of course) most everything in the Eldar list is at a premium price. You will, most likely, always be outnumbered and you're going to have to eliminate enough of your opponents forces to make your numbers count for something. GW has done a great job of returning Eldar to the finesse army that they were for many years. I'm very happy with the changes that they've made so far.

The Eldar lost a great deal of their appeal to me in the last edition when everybody just ran Scatbike Spam and Wraithknights for the win. In fact, I put my Eldar away for almost a year and played my Space Wolves(I refuse to use TWC) exclusively, just because I didn't wan't to get lumped in with all of the bandwagon jumpers. Now that we're back to thinking, back to being the army that can hit like a brick, but falls apart when the wind blows south. I've broken out the pointy eared Space Elves and am enjoying the challenges they present once again.



   
 
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