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Got a game on Wednesday. Playing Ultramarines with Gully. So already up against it with index Vs Codex. But here's my attempt at a fully Saim Hann list whilst trying to stay competitive (it was in 7th!)

Here it is.

Outrider detachment.

Farseer windrider

3x windriders
3x windriders
3x windriders, 3x shuriken cannons
3x windriders, 3x scatter lasers
3x windriders, 3x scatter lasers

Crimson hunter exarch, Bright lances
Hemlock, spirit stones

Spearhead detachment

Warlock skyrunner conclave
4x warlocks

Falcon, scatter laser, crystal targeting matrix (Want a lance, but I cant not play WYSIWYG)
Night spinner, crystal targeting matrix
Night spinner, crystal targeting matrix

1993 points in total, 5CP's. It's not great, but it's the best I can do with squeezing my old list into the new edition. Thoughts?

Conclave is absolute garbage, better to take all 4 separately in a Supreme Command Detachment.

What other models do you have available to you? Because I would swap out some of your choices if I could.

Well, I'd take a Battalion Detachment.
It will cost you at least 2 HQs and 3 Troops but gives you 3 CP.

I did think about breaking the warlocks down for a mini kind of smite spam. Models available are:

Another warlock on bike
2 seers on bikes
2 fire prisms
2 wave serpents
A Wraithknight
5 wraithguard with scythes.

Probably unlikely to make many changes. What were you thinking?

And with all due respect, looking at this list and suggesting a batallion detachment is a ridiculous thing to say. I don't even own troops choices. I'm certainly not going to squeeze 3 troops in for a measly 3 command points. I get 2 in this list as it is, and when I only have access to the rule book strategems then the difference between 5 & 6 is negligble.

The reason why Conclave is bad is because for the same points you lose powers and also character keyword so you can be targeted even if not closest. There is never a reason to take them outside of a weird Ynnari set up which I haven't looked into.

I would take a Supreme Command Detachment with 3 separate Warlock Skyrunners. That's another CP. Also I'd swap the Falcon for a Fire a Prism if you are set on keeping the Spearhead but I think your best bet is to take a Wave Serpent with your Scythe-Guard instead.

Then I would also group the bikes into 3 squads each with the different weapon options. As less deployable units means you are more likely to go first and you can make better use of guide with your Farseer.

So go:

Outrider Detachment
Farseer
3xBike squads
Scythe-Guard with Serpent
2xNight Spinners
Hemlock
Crimson Hunter

Supreme Command Detachment
3xWarlocks

And for vehicle upgrades I prefer Vectored Engines especially on Serpent (take Tri Shuriken Cannons if you have the model) and Spirit Stones should be your primary upgrade on everything else if you can afford it as it adds durability.

Awesome help thank you.

Do you really think scythe guard are worth it nowadays? I was trying to remain very saim Hann themed. Quite keen to not lose that theme. It's not a tournament game, but I do like to win. It also loses me a CP. Also, in my experience so far, fire prisms are awful. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Awesome help thank you.

Do you really think scythe guard are worth it nowadays? I was trying to remain very saim Hann themed. Quite keen to not lose that theme. It's not a tournament game, but I do like to win. It also loses me a CP. Also, in my experience so far, fire prisms are awful. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

Hey, just my two cents here, but yes to the Wraithguard w/ D-Scythes. They are worth it.

As to them fitting in to a Windrider Host, as long as the are in a Fast Transport and not foot slogging, then they'll fit the theme just fine. Every Craftworld has Wraithguard, some more than others, but they are an integral part of the Eldar lore.

Just say'n.

Also, good for you, sticking to a themed army that you enjoy. Good Luck!

I think mounted in Wave Serpent they are still fluffy and you only have one unit of this so follows the fluff perfectly really.

They are considered pretty good because they auto hit and are the same strength and ap as Wraithcannons. They are better than your other options I think with a Wave Serpent. Fire Prisms and Falcons are a little overpriced for what they are at the moment, you may be right on Fire Prisms but I like their utility and range.

Ok thanks. I'm struggling to fit what you suggested into the points. May have to drop a bike squad to do it. Trying to avoid doing that to be honest. It concerns me their 8" range. I wonder if I'm ever going to get close enough to use them.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Got a game on Wednesday. Playing Ultramarines with Gully. So already up against it with index Vs Codex. But here's my attempt at a fully Saim Hann list whilst trying to stay competitive (it was in 7th!).

Outrider detachment.

Farseer windrider

3x windriders
3x windriders
3x windriders, 3x shuriken cannons
3x windriders, 3x scatter lasers
3x windriders, 3x scatter lasers

I too have been trying to do a Saim Hann list (what to do with these expensive seers/locks on bikes!).
i would suggest making a squad of 9, they would benefit from Farseer Fortune power.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok thanks. I'm struggling to fit what you suggested into the points. May have to drop a bike squad to do it. Trying to avoid doing that to be honest. It concerns me their 8" range. I wonder if I'm ever going to get close enough to use them.

I would swap the Falcon out for a Wave Serpent, and drop the Wraithfighter altogether. This should give you the points to add in the Wraithguard w/ D-Scythes.

I would also split up the Warlocks into individuals as part of a Supreme Command Detachment instead of a Conclave. This will give you an extra CP for the same models.

Anyway Good Luck!

Wraithguard with D-scythes are a very solid choice. Slightly less powerful than Wraithcannons against vehicles and Monsters but much better against infantry.

They can Advance and shoot without penalty since they auto-hit. If you opponent charges them they get to auto-hit with overwatch and are not too shabby in combat. Then in your turn they can walk out of combat and shoot again thanks to their "Implacable" rule.

They can even be used against aircraft if your opponent is careless enough to move too close to them.

I would probably drop the falcon to pay for them and switch out a Nightspinner for a Wave serpent to put them in. For the Serpent I like either triple Shuircannon for mobile firepower or Brightlances for anti-tank. Since you have plenty of bikes, I would think Brightlances are the better choice.

Here's what I came up with but you are playing WYSIWYG and I don't know your loadouts:

Outrider Detachment
161 Farseer Skyrunner with Witchblade

180 6xWindriders with Twin Shuriken Catapults
210 6xWindriders with Scatter Lasers
96 3xWindriders with Shuriken Cannons

165 Night Spinner
165 Night Spinner

225 5xWraithguard with D-scythes
163 Wave Serpent with Twin-Shuriken and Shuriken Cannon Vectored Engines Spirit Stones

211 Hemlock
183 Crimson Hunter


Supreme Command Detachment
77 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade
77 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade
77 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade

Leaves you 10pts spare for Crystal Targetting Matrices

Ok, I have warlocks as 87 points for some reason? I have lasers on the serpent. Though I suppose I could proxy. I also have the Farseer as 171. So somehow I have 10 points more on all bikes. I've also taken the crimson hunter exarch for re rolling 1's. Perhaps I don't need that.

I'd take cannons over lasers, can move and still shoot at full BS.

He said wysiwyg so he can't change that.

Don't take exarch Crimson Hunter as it is not worth it, it would be if it was hitting on 2+ but because of heavy it isn't so the 30pts aren't as worth it. I checked my points in index feel free to check again.

I have warlocks as 87 points for some reason?

You are correct sir!

Warlock on Skyrunner + Twin Shuriken Catapults + Witchblade = 87 points


I'll second that there's no need to take a CH Exarch. The standard CH works really well and since Starcannons got nerfed, in my opinion, there's no reason to take the Exarch anymore.

I would also tend to keep the Windriders in squads of no more than three. Otherwise they'll be more subject to morale tests and losing extra models.


I would:

Outrider Detachment:

171 Farseer Skyrunner with Witchblade

90 3xWindriders with Twin Shuriken Catapults
90 3xWindriders with Twin Shuriken Catapults
105 3xWindriders with Scatter Lasers
105 3xWindriders with Scatter Lasers
96 3xWindriders with Shuriken Cannons

165 Night Spinner
165 Night Spinner

225 5xWraithguard with D-scythes
173 Wave Serpent with Twin Brightlance, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, CTM

183 Crimson Hunter


Supreme Command Detachment:

87 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade
87 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade
87 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade
87 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade

1916 Total

Leaving you enough to add Vyper to your Outriders.

Anyway, just trying to work closely with what you've listed to get you as much mileage as I can. Hope it works for you.

Good Luck!!!

Wow so Skyrunner seers are in a really bad place with cost vs effectiveness, in that case maybe get rid of some Warlock Skyrunners and fit a fire Prism in with a Spearhead Detachment. Taking 4 Warlocks is not worth the points at all. They are so effective on foot for 37pts

The more I've had a chance to contemplate what you've got to work with I think I would run this:



Outrider Detachment:

171 Farseer Skyrunner with Witchblade

90 3xWindriders with Twin Shuriken Catapults
90 3xWindriders with Twin Shuriken Catapults
105 3xWindriders with Scatter Lasers
105 3xWindriders with Scatter Lasers
96 3xWindriders with Shuriken Cannons

225 5xWraithguard with D-scythes
168 Wave Serpent with Twin Brightlance, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

183 Crimson Hunter


Spearhead Detachment:

87 Warlock Skyrunner with Witchblade

165 Night Spinner
165 Night Spinner
173 Fire Prism w/ CTM
173 Fire Prism w/ CTM


1999 Total

You'll still be getting the same amount of CP, but this sticks with what models you've got to work with, while giving you the extra range to deal with hard targets. Remember though, that the CTM only works if you are firing at the closest target so you'll have to be cautious when moving to position the Prisms to maximize their effectiveness.

Hey, it's Eldar. Up until last edition the army was all about finesse. It's finally returned to it's roots.

Good Luck!

Really not sold on the prisms. I think I'd get more use out of the warlock smite bombs.

This is what I had just written let me know what you think.

Outrider det:

Farseer skyrunner

3x windriders, 1x cannon
3x windriders, 1x cannon
3x windriders, 3x lasers
3x windriders, 3x lasers

Hemlock
Crimson hunter

Night spinner, CTM, SS
Night spinner, CTM, SS

5 wraithguard, scythes
Serpent, cannon, TL SL, CTM, SS, VE, SE

Supreme command det
Warlock skyrunner
Warlock skyrunner
Warlock skyrunner

1999 points.

Really not sold on the prisms. I think I'd get more use out of the warlock smite bombs.

My only real problem with the idea of the Warlock Smite bomb is the depleted statline of Smite. (Half range and only 1 Mortal Wound per casting just isn't enough for me to risk that many points.)

In order to use the Warlock Smite power, you've got to get danger close. They'll probably get charged and that's definitely not what they do best.

All I can say though is, try it out and see.

I agree, maybe take another Farseer instead and forget about the Supreme Command Detachment

The other bonus to multiple warlocks is multiple powers. You can enhance the wraithguard, drain the enemy, conceal the wraithguard etc. Make units that little bit more survivaable.

How about this.

Outrider det:

Farseer skyrunner

3 Windriders
3 Windriders
3 Windriders, 3 cannons

5 wraithguard, scythes
Waveserpent, cannon, TL SL, SS, VE, SE, CTM

Hemlock
Crimson hunter

Supreme command:

Warlock skyrunner
Warlock skyrunner
Warlock skyrunner

Superheavy aux:

Wraithknight, ghost glaive and scatter shield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the second list I struggle to decide on psychic powers for the seer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On second thoughts, I could drop a bike squad and a warlock for a second seer. I lose a command point but I personally find them 'meh' without our own strategems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the other list idea.

Patrol Detachment
Farseer skyrunner

3 Windriders, 1 cannon
3 Windriders, 1 cannon

5 wraithguard, D scythes
Wave serpent, cannon, twin scatter lasers, vectored engines, spirit stones, crystal

Hemlock,
Crimson hunter, bright lances

Supreme command +1 CP
Farseer skyrunner, singing spear
Warlock skyrunner
Warlock skyrunner

Super heavy aux:

Wraithknight, sword and shield.

1997 points, 4 CPs total. 10 drops.

The other bonus to multiple warlocks is multiple powers. You can enhance the wraithguard, drain the enemy, conceal the wraithguard etc. Make units that little bit more survivaable.

I agree that you have the potential to make the Wraithguard more potent/survivable, but now, depending on the situation, you're relying heavily on the Warlocks powers to go off. It's alot of points just to buff one unit and the Warlocks won't be casting Smite if you're using the other powers either.

I noticed you've put a Wraithknight in both of your latest lists.

Unlike most people, I feel that Wraithknights are still a viable choice, as long as the rest of the list properly supports it and offers enough of a threat that your opponent can't just target it with everything he's got. A Wraithknight is an "All your eggs in one basket" type of unit, and if you are using it as the fulcrum of your army, then when it dies (or is degraded severely) the rest of your list just crumbles. This needs repeating: "You've got to have enough units that can threaten your opponent in order to make a Wraithknight work in 8th." Otherwise you've just wasted 25% of your army.

In the lists you've posted, using the Wraithknights, you've got two flyers, a full Wave Serpent, 12/13 Jetbikes w/ limited range and damage output, and no real way to screen Deep Striking units off of your important stuff. This may prove to be problematic anyway with the cost of your units in general, but the more bikes you can utilize in your list the larger area of denial you can set up.

Honestly, with as many drops as you have got you've probably got to just plan on going second. Which means you won't have any Psychic powers for your opponents first turn and you really need to keep him off your back long enough to activate all of the things that will help you survive/destroy his army. I know you are wanting to stick to WYSIWYG as much as possible, but "I" would equip all of my Jetbikes with Shuriken Cannons and field as many as I could. This way every model has excellent range and great damage potential. I'd field one Farseer w/ Doom & Fortune and one Warlock w/ Conceal,Reveal. This would be the basis for "my" list. I'd then add all of the other units to fill in the gaps. (Wraithguard in a Serpent, Wraithknight, Crimson Hunter, Fire Prism, Doom Weaver, etc.)

I know there are quite a few people who swear by the Hemlock Wraithfighter. It's been my experience that in the age of Ven. Rifleman Dreadnoughts and Assault Cannon Razorback/Storm Raven/Storm Talon/Storm Hawk spam (With everyone rerolling 1's to hit and wound!) that the range of the Wraithfighter is counterproductive. They may not degraded when they take damage (auto hitting and all) but they still die quick enough at only T6, because if your guns are in range, their guns are in range. I prefer the CH's range and damage potential. Some folks will say that you can just use a command point to reroll the Heavy D-Scythes number of shots to maximize it's output, but that's not really going to be an option for you, as CPs are going to be at a premium and you'll really want to use them for the Wraithguards guns instead.

Anyway these are just some things that I've observed/experienced first hand. So the best I can do for you is to tell you to try out a list. See what works and what doesn't. Tweak. Repeat. Find what works for you and your style of play. Most of all laugh enjoy the time spent with friends. Win or lose, have a good time.

Good Luck!

What an awesome response. Really insightful. Thanks mate, really appreciate it.

Honestly, I have had about 7 different iterations of this eldar list, as I haven't really played with them in 8th yet. This isn't a tournament, I just don't want to get thrashed, so iIthink I am going to take it to the table and see what happens. I have learnt stuff from this thread. I thought that wraithguard were terrible. So it's nice to know that people think they are still decent. I used to build all my lists in knights. To be honest, I wasn't going to take one. But as we're filming for YouTube we figured it was something people might want to see in the new edition.

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate all the input.

Anytime, friend.

Be sure to post a link to the video and I'll check it out.

Best of Luck from across the pond!