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So I was thinking about different builds for Eldar(Aeldari... whatever) and I really enjoy jetbikes. So im trying to build a list with maybe 2 windrider squads, a full squad of shining spears and then an Autarch on jetbike and at least one farseer on jetbike. My question is how has 8th effected shining spears? are they even worth it?

They seem very glass cannon to me. If they can charge something like Primaris marines or terminators, they might get their points back, but T4 2W 3+/4++ means they won't live long if the enemy wants to get rid of them.

All it takes is one Roboute buffed twin auto cannon dreadnought to wipe out a squad of three in one shooting phase, so I'm not entirely sure how they would get close enough to get a charge off.

They could be useful as some kind of anti deep strike defensive counter charge unit, waiting around for something to get out of position and pounce of them, but I'm not sure that's particularly great either, and their durability is still an issue.

importantguardsman wrote:
So I was thinking about different builds for Eldar(Aeldari... whatever) and I really enjoy jetbikes. So im trying to build a list with maybe 2 windrider squads, a full squad of shining spears and then an Autarch on jetbike and at least one farseer on jetbike. My question is how has 8th effected shining spears? are they even worth it?

This is the Saim Hann route. But jetbikes are rather squishy when compared with Biel Tan, i.e., units transported by Serpents.

I've used a unit of 3 shining spears escorting a Farseer Skyrunner that was buffing them a few times now in 8th - great for flanking and supporting other units; shooting and then charging SM units of 5 they did really well (Farseer had the spear as well) plus they fly so leap back out and shoot/charge again if needed; and they did okay survivability wise (they are Eldar afterall). Use them for their strengths and they are a good unit in 8th imho. Only way to find out for yourself is to play them a bit and see

Here's an adaptation of a list I'm building that doesn't use Shining Spears:
+++ 2000 Saim Hann Aeldari (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [103 PL, 2000pts] +++
++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) ++
+ HQ +
Autarch Skyrunner: Forceshield, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult
Warlock Skyrunner: 3. Enhance/Drain, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult
Warlock Skyrunner: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) ++
+ Flyer +
Crimson Hunter: 2x Bright Lance
Crimson Hunter: 2x Bright Lance
Hemlock Wraithfighter: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Spirit Stones

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) ++
+ HQ +
Farseer Skyrunner: 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Fast Attack +
Shining Spears
3x Shining Spear: 3x Laser Lance, 3x Twin Shuriken Catapult
Shining Spears
3x Shining Spear: 3x Laser Lance, 3x Twin Shuriken Catapult
Shining Spears
3x Shining Spear: 3x Laser Lance, 3x Twin Shuriken Catapult
Windriders
3x Windrider - Shuriken Cannon: 3x Shuriken Cannon
Windriders
3x Windrider - Shuriken Cannon: 3x Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support +
Night Spinner: Twin Shuriken Catapult
Night Spinner: Twin Shuriken Catapult

My original design replaced the shining spears with more windriders and I grouped them into 6 man units for better LOS/buff sharing. The idea of the list is to have your warlocks cast the -1 modifier powers, focusing drain on the biggest nastiest threat in range while making sure everything else crowds into the conceal bubble. The aircraft strafe back and forth hopefully obliterating heavy armor vehicles with bright lances and the like and screening off assaults from non flying assault units (terminators, etc.) while the night spinners sit behind LOS blocking terrain and dump fire while surviving. The jetbikes can scoot around the board 22" per move phase, advancing with impunity thanks to battle focus and their guns all being assault.

I have no idea how this actually works, however, as I'm still accruing models, building, and painting. Eventually though!

jcd386 wrote:
They seem very glass cannon to me. If they can charge something like Primaris marines or terminators, they might get their points back, but T4 2W 3+/4++ means they won't live long if the enemy wants to get rid of them.

All it takes is one Roboute buffed twin auto cannon dreadnought to wipe out a squad of three in one shooting phase, so I'm not entirely sure how they would get close enough to get a charge off.

They could be useful as some kind of anti deep strike defensive counter charge unit, waiting around for something to get out of position and pounce of them, but I'm not sure that's particularly great either, and their durability is still an issue.

They are extremely glass cannon. I've been running a unit of 4 + exarch (with lance) since 8th dropped and I find them fun to play with, but if they don't get a charge off, you're going to be losing a few hundred points of models right off the bat. On the flipside, if they do get a charge off, they're going to do some serious killing with or without psychic buffs. Fly keyword for charges is also very useful.

Couple of positive examples from the four Eldar games I've played with them: a turn 1 kill of a Heldrake and turn 1 kill of a rhino (shooting), then the wipe of the Chaos Chosen inside it (charge/close combat). A bad example: turn 1 wipe from a deep strike terminator squad that pulled off a 10" charge, practically wiping them in one go.

I've found most success with a Skyrunner Warlock to conceal them, which means they get a -1 hit, plus the 4+ invuln save against shooting.

I have found Spears to be very good. 9 with a Star Lance Exarch for 390pts. Their damage output is ridiculous.

They (like all craftworlders) are much better as Ynnari. Shooting or attacking twice with their high damage output is great, but making a 22" SfD move to safety after killing something is probably best, they are fragile.

jcd386 wrote:

All it takes is one Roboute buffed twin auto cannon dreadnought to wipe out a squad of three in one shooting phase, so I'm not entirely sure how they would get close enough to get a charge off.

What does a cheesy special character that is obviously broken have anything to do with Shining Spears? They are a great unit to take, and one of the new best choices to take in the Eldar codex's. If your having problems facing Roboute, its quite simple. Dont play against an army that includes him. Let your opponent know that there is only 1 Ultra Marines Primarch in the entire universe, and his special Ultra Marines army that was built and painted and blessed by the emperor himself should not include a Primarch every single game, otherwise hes using him as a crutch and cant win a game without a broken special character that GW needs to balance.

I love shining spears. I use them in most every list I run, typically in 2, 3 man units with an exarch with a star lance in each unit. They do take out monsters and vehicles, but my main use for them is to tie up shooty units without fly.

I don't use them as a dedicated melee unit to take out other CQC units. That would be a waste as dedicated CC units would tear them apart with better saves and often times more attacks. A leman however will rarely hurt our guys in melee, and you prevent it from shooting up anything else for its next turn. And if it does happen to hit you with overwatch you've got a 3+/4++ which while not the best it is pretty good.

Also a squad of 3 puts out 12 S4 shots that have ap-3 on the roll of a 6 to wound 2 shots at ap-4 and 2 damage and a single s8 shot at ap-4 and 2 damage. Pepper your target with shots, then charge in. Also you have fly so if you get into a combat you don't like you can flee and still shoot.

All this for only 132 points per unit. Of course this is just my experience in my meta. ymmv.

If you're running a 3 man unit you probably need to be comparing them to a laser lance Autarch with melta gun. They are a similar price and have the same number of wounds. The Autarch gets the character rule for defense and keeps his 4++ in CC. He has less attacks but hits on 2s rerolled and has the melta gun. It's a close run thing.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
If you're running a 3 man unit you probably need to be comparing them to a laser lance Autarch with melta gun. They are a similar price and have the same number of wounds. The Autarch gets the character rule for defense and keeps his 4++ in CC. He has less attacks but hits on 2s rerolled and has the melta gun. It's a close run thing.

The autarch only has 6 compared to the squad of 3's 7, (the exarch has 3 wounds) and while he has a similar strength he can only put out 2 shots in the shooting phase (granted 1 is s8 ap-4 d6 damage) and 4 s6 attacks in melee. The sky runners have 1 more wound, fire 15 shots in the shooting phase, 12 being s4 ap0 d1 but ap-3 on 6s 2 are s6 ap-4 d2 and if you take the star lance on the exarch like I mentioned that's 1 s8 ap-4 d2 shot. then in melee you're putting out 4 s6 ap-4 d2 and 3 s8 ap-4 d2 attacks. The exarch also gets to reroll wounds against vehicles and monsters. Also if you're using them as harassers to prevent shooting as I do, then you're typically going to be the closest model so the character rules won't really help too much anyways.

As I said this is just hat works in my meta, as I play in a meta dominated by shooting. Lots of IG and space marines and such, usually with lots of vehicles, so being able to potentially charge one of those vehicles and prevent even 1 turn of shooting can be immense. And they're kitted out in such a way that they could not only inconvenience a vehicle but easily kill it. And their twin shuriken catapults work well enough on infantry.

All in all a solid unit, but in different metas their effectiveness may change.

Edit- forgot to mention the autarch (if you're talking about a skyrunner autarch) also gets 4 twin shuriken catapult shots

All good reasons why you might want the Spears over the Autarch for sure. As I said there are pros and cons to both and which is better will depend on your list and the meta, as you say.

I would point out that the character rule is very handy even if your not hiding behind other units. Rather than never getting shot, like a Farseer in a unit of Guardians, a frontline CC character benefits from not being able to be focus fired.

Say you assault a Predator to put some wounds on it and stop it shooting. The Predator then falls back and now the unit that was next to it can shoot the character. However, assuming the rest of your army is in the opponents lines, only that one unit may be close enough, and it may not have the firepower to wipe you out. This applies to all CC characters and has been most effective for me with the Yncarne but it also works with a Autarch Skyrunner.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
If you're running a 3 man unit you probably need to be comparing them to a laser lance Autarch with melta gun. They are a similar price and have the same number of wounds. The Autarch gets the character rule for defense and keeps his 4++ in CC. He has fewer attacks but hits on 2s rerolled and has the melta gun. It's a close run thing.

The autarch can get killed by a single 6 wound hit. Where-as a squad of 3 bikers can take one each.
The character rule does help with that, but it's something.