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Made in us
Pewling Menial




KY, US

This question revolves around the Space Marine Attack Bike

"Each model is equipped with a twin boltgun and a heavy bolter, and is crewed by two Space Marines armed with bolt pistols, frag grenades, and krak grenades."

1. How many bolt pistols (and how many shots) is appropriate? Why?

2. Assuming it is 2, because there are 2 crew... can one crewman throw a grenade while the other fires a gun?

3. If he can't, because an attack bike is "one model", then why is there a distinction of two crew, armed with (separate) weapons?

   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





1. I'd say 2.
2. No, the bike is a single model, so your choices are:
A grenade
All its pistols
All its other ranged weapons
3. It may be holdover language from previous editions, because the fact that there were two Marines used to affect how many weapons it could fire IIRC.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

The IG/AM HWT is also two models on a single base.
They get a single Lasgun and no pistols, so it not the best example.

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Made in de
Experienced Maneater






 Skinnereal wrote:
The IG/AM HWT is also two models on a single base.
They get a single Lasgun and no pistols, so it not the best example.

One is shooting the big gun, and the other the rifle. Not comparable.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




1) Two because a model armed with two pistols may fire both of them. Cypher and seraphims get to fire both of their pistols in combat, why wouldn't a model of an attack bike armed with 2 pistols also get to do the same? Ignore the fact there is two marines on the bike. It's a mcguffin.

If they fire bolters/heavy bolters they get to fire all boltguns and heavy bolter. If they want to throw a grenade they may only throw 1 grenade because only 1 model in the unit may throw a grenade.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/10 14:27:25


 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Youn: last paragraph depends on how you read the "one" in the grenades rules.

If it is "one" as in 1 grenade weapon; then the model can throw 2 of the same grenade(as it is 1 model throwing all of its 1 grenade weapons) since it is equipped with 2 of each grenade.

If it is "one" as in literally 1 grenade; then a single model in the unit can only ever throw 1 grenade at a time irrespective of how many of the same grenades they are equipped.

The whole formatting of the equipment is poorly handled if it is the latter of the above reads, as they could have just stated the attack bike has 2 bolt pistols.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




From the primer


Grenade
Grenades are handheld explosive devices that a warrior throws at the enemy while their squad mates provide covering fire.


Each time a unit shoots, a single model in the unit that is equipped with Grenades may throw one instead of firing any other weapon.


I read 'may throw one' as they can throw one grenade of any type.


Note: the last paragraph of pistols might clarify that model item:

Each time a model equipped with both a Pistol and another type of ranged weapon (e.g. a Pistol and a Rapid Fire weapon)
shoots, it can either shoot with its Pistol(s) or with all of its other weapons. Choose which it will fire (Pistols or non-Pistols) before making hit rolls.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/10 17:16:56


 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






I am not actually disagreeing with you; just pointing out that the language within grenades is very inconsistent.

Before the "may throw one" you have "a single model in the unit that is equipped with grenades".

The change from a very specific "single model" to "may throw one" when most models are equipped with multiple different grenades but never multiple of the same is simple as you can throw a frag or a krak. But here we have a model that is equipped with 2 frags, and 2 kraks. Thete is no reason to give an assault bike 2 of the same weapon that you can every only use 1 of that weapon at a time.

As I said earlier: "may throw one instead of firing any other weapons" could be read as "throw a named weapon with the grenade type instead of firing any other weapons " the normal shooting rules already allow shooting with multiple weapons so any futher statements are unnecessary.

Pistols do necessitate clarification for all pistols because you can fire a bolt pistol and a plasma pistol. You could never throw a frag and a krak.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Not sure what the confusion on pistols and grenades is?

Example:

5 Assault Marines: Armed with Bolt pistols, frag and krak grenades one Marine also has a flamer. .

3 Marines fire pistols, 1 marine fires flamer and 1 marine throws a grenade.

First 3 marines per model each choose to fire a pistol, therefore they could fire no other weapons.
Fourth marine model choose to fire flamer and therefore cannot fire his bolt pistol.
Fifth marine being one model in the unit, choose to throw a grenade. He may not fire his pistol because he may not fire any other weapon.

   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

I think there's a massive amount of overthinking going on. Keep it simple and it's easy.

Space Marines have Bolt pistols, frag and krak grenades as default wargear. Therefore two Space Marines on an Attack Bike still have their basic kit. That's why it's listed that way.

Both Space Marines could fire their Bolt Pistols if they wanted, but couldn't fire other weapons (because Pistol rules). So you'd get two Bolt pistol shots from the one Attack Bike model.

It's still one model, albeit with two crew. The grenades rules say a model per unit may throw one grenade, so the crew could only throw one grenade. If they did they couldn't fire the twin Bolters or the sidecar heavy weapon, or their pistols.

Simples.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
 
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