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id like to use ard boys from aos as boys and was wondering if any 40k version had heavy armor?

Nope, not currently. Maybe when the codex arrives, who knows...

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
id like to use ard boys from aos as boys and was wondering if any 40k version had heavy armor?

No. GW have a No Model No Rules policy ever since the Chapter House and Spots the Space Marine lawsuits. Since they don't make a specific 40k 'Ard Boyz model, no rules for you.

You have to use them as Nobz if you want a 4+ save.

They used to have an 'ard boyz upgrade kit.. It's a shame they stopped selling it.

IFC_Casting wrote:
They used to have an 'ard boyz upgrade kit.. It's a shame they stopped selling it.

Was thinking the same.
After reading the thread i thought about it but couldn`t find it online.

Maybe they will have a come back with the new codex along with the other stuff that got lost on the way. :(

I have this upgrade sprue, added the shoulder pads, but never got to the Gobz since I wanted to paint faces first...

I also bought the 'Ard Boyz box with the upgrade sprue way back when. They looked pretty much the same as when a person took used two shoulder pads, and iron gob and a helmeted head out of the regular boyz box, so I'm guessing most people didn't bother spending the money on them.

The new AOS 'Ard Boyz look much more heavily armored.

I hope they come out with a new kit and include them in the Ork codex. Someone here had the idea of a 'Ard Boyz/Skarboyz dual kit, which I think is a really good idea.

I might have to track some down and replicate them. That was a pretty neat little blister pack.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
id like to use ard boys from aos as boys and was wondering if any 40k version had heavy armor?

No. GW have a No Model No Rules policy ever since the Chapter House and Spots the Space Marine lawsuits. Since they don't make a specific 40k 'Ard Boyz model, no rules for you.

Which is concerning for Orks because we currently lacking a proper Mega Armor Warboss and Warboss on a Bike. It seems very unlikely GW will have a release with both of these models for the codex and yet if they cut either one of them then its going to start a firestorm of anger from Ork players as both are the main ways people field Warbosses.

 Vankraken wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
id like to use ard boys from aos as boys and was wondering if any 40k version had heavy armor?

No. GW have a No Model No Rules policy ever since the Chapter House and Spots the Space Marine lawsuits. Since they don't make a specific 40k 'Ard Boyz model, no rules for you.

Which is concerning for Orks because we currently lacking a proper Mega Armor Warboss and Warboss on a Bike. It seems very unlikely GW will have a release with both of these models for the codex and yet if they cut either one of them then its going to start a firestorm of anger from Ork players as both are the main ways people field Warbosses.

They kind of do. More often than not people use Ghaz for a Mega Armor Warboss, and Forge World makes a Warboss on a bike. That might not be enough for GW to keep them though, which is concerning.


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There are rumors that the Ork codex won't be out until 2018, based off of a snippet from the Warhammer Community post about Chapter Approved. If the Orks get one of the later codexes I wouldn't be surprised if they get a significant release to go along with it. However, even if we get several models you're right that it doesn't seem likely that we'd get both a Mega Armored boss and a Biker boss unless maybe they were part of a triumverate.

Still finding the removal of eavy armoured boyz from the Index a bit baffling – sure, there's no specific model kit, but they're easily made up from the basic boyz, and the same reasoning doesn't seem to have been applied to, say, IG Veterans or Conscripts.

When I spoke to a former GW colleague about it, who's now part of the studio team, he hinted they might be coming back in the Codex, but the comment was made in a pretty informal, offhand manner so I'm not holding my breath for the time being; have just mixed my "Ardboyz" in with my normal boyz mobs for now.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
id like to use ard boys from aos as boys and was wondering if any 40k version had heavy armor?

No. GW have a No Model No Rules policy ever since the Chapter House and Spots the Space Marine lawsuits. Since they don't make a specific 40k 'Ard Boyz model, no rules for you.

Which is ridicolous since tons of the current options included in the codexes become illegal by this logic. Orks for example couldn't field a biker boss, a warboss in megarmor, big mek with kff, big mek with bike and kff, warboss with power klaw, painboy on bike. SWs lords can chose from tons of options but they just have the harald model which became a generic lord but a monopose one with axe and shield plus canis, which is a named character and not a wolf lord. Rune priests on bikes, wolf priests of any kinds are completely absent from the catalogue, iron priests with bike o thunderwolf mount would become illegal, wolf guard battle leaders should be wiped out from the codex since there is not even an official model available and he can also have several options like the lord....

The eavy amor debate is different since it a specific option/upgrade for an existing kit. Probably GW thought that orks are more fluffy with a 6+ save.

I see many people making the claim that options can't be in a codex if they don't come in the box (and also that FW doesn't count as official).

Well I'm calling BS on that. How many Assault Cannons are there in a Razorback kit? That's right: none. Yet the option still exists in a brand new codex.

E: What I'm trying to say is that there's precedent that might be the case, but options missing from the box is not a 100% proof it can't exist in a codex.

 Weazel wrote:
I see many people making the claim that options can't be in a codex if they don't come in the box (and also that FW doesn't count as official).

Well I'm calling BS on that. How many Assault Cannons are there in a Razorback kit? That's right: none. Yet the option still exists in a brand new codex.

Yeah I'm not sure why though, because it is one of the only cases where this is true. It might be more, we don't make the bit for that option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
id like to use ard boys from aos as boys and was wondering if any 40k version had heavy armor?

No. GW have a No Model No Rules policy ever since the Chapter House and Spots the Space Marine lawsuits. Since they don't make a specific 40k 'Ard Boyz model, no rules for you.

Which is ridicolous since tons of the current options included in the codexes become illegal by this logic. Orks for example couldn't field a biker boss, a warboss in megarmor, big mek with kff, big mek with bike and kff, warboss with power klaw, painboy on bike. SWs lords can chose from tons of options but they just have the harald model which became a generic lord but a monopose one with axe and shield plus canis, which is a named character and not a wolf lord. Rune priests on bikes, wolf priests of any kinds are completely absent from the catalogue, iron priests with bike o thunderwolf mount would become illegal, wolf guard battle leaders should be wiped out from the codex since there is not even an official model available and he can also have several options like the lord....

The eavy amor debate is different since it a specific option/upgrade for an existing kit. Probably GW thought that orks are more fluffy with a 6+ save.

I can see both sides, having options without kits is tough for new players to understand to some extent.


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As to the original topic, you could use them for a Nobz squad as those models have a 4+ save so could be represented has more heavily armored.

I play SW and I love kitbashing my characters and other models as well to suitable configurations. Just starting up Orks and I hope that at least some of the more exotic options still remain.

That said I think the selection of Ork HQ kits is very lacking at the moment. Hopefully we see some new minis whenever the codex hits.

Without the pleasure converting and kitbashing and customize my armies I wouldn't even start collecting 40k miniatures

 Blackie wrote:
Without the pleasure converting and kitbashing and customize my armies I wouldn't even start collecting 40k miniatures

Indeed, I'm genuinely scared GW is lost on this notion in the wake of the chapterhouse debacle.

I love converting and kitbashing, I'm not sure however that it should be a required part of the hobby to make a specific unit. I generally do it typically to save money and create variety when having similar units to break up the look of my army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Weazel wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Without the pleasure converting and kitbashing and customize my armies I wouldn't even start collecting 40k miniatures

Indeed, I'm genuinely scared GW is lost on this notion in the wake of the chapterhouse debacle.

I don't think they have, I just think they don't want it to be required.

Breng77 wrote:


Yeah I'm not sure why though, because it is one of the only cases where this is true. It might be more, we don't make the bit for that option.

There are many examples actually. Drukhari scourges come in a box with 5 dudes but only one model of any special weapon in each kit when you can equip 4 of them with the same weapons, and no one plays them with different loadout. Should I have to buy 4 boxes of those? By doing that I would end up with 4 units with different wargear, which I probably don't even want. Space wolves can be equipped with melta guns or flamers but none of their kits have them, same as combi meltas/plasmas which are only included in the start collecting, because they're part of the SM commander kit. What about SM devastators or SW long fangs with only 1-2 weapons per 5 guys? If I want to field 4 missile launchers, I am forced to buy 4 boxes, which is insane. Luckily there are sites that sell bitz but they ain't cheap and these kind of options, that everybody wants, are tipycally out of stock.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breng77 wrote:
I love converting and kitbashing, I'm not sure however that it should be a required part of the hobby to make a specific unit. I generally do it typically to save money and create variety when having similar units to break up the look of my army.

Without converting you have plenty of other choices. You can play the game just the same.

 Blackie wrote:

Breng77 wrote:


Yeah I'm not sure why though, because it is one of the only cases where this is true. It might be more, we don't make the bit for that option.

There are many examples actually. Drukhari scourges come in a box with 5 dudes but only one model of any special weapon in each kit when you can equip 4 of them with the same weapons, and no one plays them with different loadout. Should I have to buy 4 boxes of those? By doing that I would end up with 4 units with different wargear, which I probably don't even want. Space wolves can be equipped with melta guns or flamers but none of their kits have them, same as combi meltas/plasmas which are only included in the start collecting, because they're part of the SM commander kit. What about SM devastators or SW long fangs with only 1-2 weapons per 5 guys? If I want to field 4 missile launchers, I am forced to buy 4 boxes, which is insane. Luckily there are sites that sell bitz but they ain't cheap and these kind of options, that everybody wants, are tipycally out of stock.

Those aren't examples of cases where an option does not even come in the kit. Just examples of kits with not enough options to make an optimized squad. As for Space Wolves we don't know if they will keep those options in their codex. But as the bits exist I assume they will. My point was that there is an assault cannon turret bit that GW makes, there isn't one for say the Twin auto cannon they removed from the dread.

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Breng77 wrote:
I love converting and kitbashing, I'm not sure however that it should be a required part of the hobby to make a specific unit. I generally do it typically to save money and create variety when having similar units to break up the look of my army.

Without converting you have plenty of other choices. You can play the game just the same.

You really don't when they don't make a kit for a specific unit. Like TWC back in the day, no kit existed the only way to make the unit was conversion for kitbashing. Same for the autocannon dread, bike captain etc. To field those units you are required to kitbash or convert to use the unit. So having those units makes converting or kitbashing a required part of the hobby if you want access to all the units in your army. That shouldn't be a thing now, GW could easily include a few fancy bits in things like the biker kit and say, here is the biker captain, or sell upgrade sprues for these things. But unless they do I don't see why those units need to exist when they are non-standard models. This is less true for things they haven't recast like a KFF big mek, or a biker chaplain which did have models but no longer do.

Breng77 wrote:


You really don't when they don't make a kit for a specific unit. Like TWC back in the day, no kit existed the only way to make the unit was conversion for kitbashing. Same for the autocannon dread, bike captain etc. To field those units you are required to kitbash or convert to use the unit. So having those units makes converting or kitbashing a required part of the hobby if you want access to all the units in your army. That shouldn't be a thing now, GW could easily include a few fancy bits in things like the biker kit and say, here is the biker captain, or sell upgrade sprues for these things. But unless they do I don't see why those units need to exist when they are non-standard models. This is less true for things they haven't recast like a KFF big mek, or a biker chaplain which did have models but no longer do.

I meant to say that you could play with other different units that actually have an official kit. You can play with a battle-forged list without the slightest conversion actually. No one is forcing you to be competitive.

But the idea of deleting stuff since they're not included in any kit and many people are not able to properly convert their miniatures is ridicolous. You don't want to convert? Good, there are other units/wargear in the codex. Otherwise GW should include in their existing kits several other bitz and releasing tons of new kits/blisters to cover any possible combination that you can have using the index/codex. Those units need to exist because otherwise we would have only few options available while IMHO they're actually not even enough and I'd like even more variety. By your logic every army will end up with only 2-3 possible lists.

Converting is not different than painting. You should be able to deal with these parts of the hobby. And by converting I don't mean to scracth build a gorkanaut with plasticard, but only to customize existing miniatures in order to create charcaters. In the most popular armies you can chose between 10ish HQ choices for example but GW only sells 3-4 models. I refuse to accept the idea that only that few official miniatures in the catalogue should be legal. Orks could only play with ghaz, weirboyz, zagstruck, snikrot, badrukk, warboss with big choppa and big mek with shokk attack gun by this logic. Only 3 HQs that aren't named characters, and 2/3 of them useless in the game.

I could accept the logic only if GW produces twice (or more) the actual products, giving an official option for all the units/loadouts currently included in codexes or if they substitute those options that are not covered by models with several new ones.

 Blackie wrote:

Breng77 wrote:


You really don't when they don't make a kit for a specific unit. Like TWC back in the day, no kit existed the only way to make the unit was conversion for kitbashing. Same for the autocannon dread, bike captain etc. To field those units you are required to kitbash or convert to use the unit. So having those units makes converting or kitbashing a required part of the hobby if you want access to all the units in your army. That shouldn't be a thing now, GW could easily include a few fancy bits in things like the biker kit and say, here is the biker captain, or sell upgrade sprues for these things. But unless they do I don't see why those units need to exist when they are non-standard models. This is less true for things they haven't recast like a KFF big mek, or a biker chaplain which did have models but no longer do.

I meant to say that you could play with other different units that actually have an official kit. You can play with a battle-forged list without the slightest conversion actually. No one is forcing you to be competitive.

But the idea of deleting stuff since they're not included in any kit and many people are not able to properly convert their miniatures is ridicolous. You don't want to convert? Good, there are other units/wargear in the codex. Otherwise GW should include in their existing kits several other bitz and releasing tons of new kits/blisters to cover any possible combination that you can have using the index/codex. Those units need to exist because otherwise we would have only few options available while IMHO they're actually not even enough and I'd like even more variety. By your logic every army will end up with only 2-3 possible lists.

Converting is not different than painting. You should be able to deal with these parts of the hobby. And by converting I don't mean to scracth build a gorkanaut with plasticard, but only to customize existing miniatures in order to create charcaters. In the most popular armies you can chose between 10ish HQ choices for example but GW only sells 3-4 models. I refuse to accept the idea that only that few official miniatures in the catalogue should be legal. Orks could only play with ghaz, weirboyz, zagstruck, snikrot, badrukk, warboss with big choppa and big mek with shokk attack gun by this logic. Only 3 HQs that aren't named characters, and 2/3 of them useless in the game.

I could accept the logic only if GW produces twice (or more) the actual products, giving an official option for all the units/loadouts currently included in codexes or if they substitute those options that are not covered by models with several new ones.

You missed the big mek in Mega armor with telly port blasta or KFF as he has an official kit with the mega nob box. The Warboss with PK available in Grukk's boss mob, and the one in battle for Vedross. So basically we would be losing bike characters (outside of FW).

I'd like to see them produce a warboss kit with all his options, same with the Big mek. I also said I had more issue with removal of options due to no longer making the miniatures.

I agree they should have always created models that cover every "official" option, but got in the habit of giving options for things that did not actually have models. What I'm saying is that I should not be required to convert at all to use an entry in my codex. I'd be perfectly fine with them releasing boxes with more options, I don't really even care about arm swaps that much, but things like TWC should never have been put in a book prior to a model release, the dread never should have had options for autocannon arms when they were not a bit available in any GW dread kit. To me it isn't really good for the hobby to sell rules for units you cannot use with out of the box models.

I forgot about them mostly because the big mek in megarmor has always been useless. And that warboss, well you have to buy an entire box full of SM to have it.

Grukk is a named characted and even if you use it as a regular boss you should convert his weapon since no one wants to play with a combi.rokkit. And even that boss comes in a box in which you are forced to buy other stuff which you maybe don't want.

Let's talk about SW for example. 75% of their HQs are available only by kitsbashing. But I don't see any problems in that, those HQs are just regular men, not gigantic superheroes so, converting an existing model should be ok.

The point is we will never receive all the miniatures that we can currently field and without converting our characters we'll lose a lot of options. And this would be bad.

From my perspective assembling, converting and kitbashing the miniatures is the most amusing part of the hobby. I would hate playing with models that can't look unique. And creating a character that is not in the caralogue is challenging. I hate painting for example but I do not wish to have the miniatures already painted in the box. For the same reason it sounds silly to ban the conversions.

I don't see the issue with including stuff that are absent from the catalogue and available only by conversions.

 Blackie wrote:
Let's talk about SW for example. 75% of their HQs are available only by kitsbashing.

Which means 75% of their HQ's will be axed from the codex.

 Blackie wrote:
I forgot about them mostly because the big mek in megarmor has always been useless. And that warboss, well you have to buy an entire box full of SM to have it.

Grukk is a named characted and even if you use it as a regular boss you should convert his weapon since no one wants to play with a combi.rokkit. And even that boss comes in a box in which you are forced to buy other stuff which you maybe don't want.

Let's talk about SW for example. 75% of their HQs are available only by kitsbashing. But I don't see any problems in that, those HQs are just regular men, not gigantic superheroes so, converting an existing model should be ok.

The point is we will never receive all the miniatures that we can currently field and without converting our characters we'll lose a lot of options. And this would be bad.

From my perspective assembling, converting and kitbashing the miniatures is the most amusing part of the hobby. I would hate playing with models that can't look unique. And creating a character that is not in the caralogue is challenging. I hate painting for example but I do not wish to have the miniatures already painted in the box. For the same reason it sounds silly to ban the conversions.

I don't see the issue with including stuff that are absent from the catalogue and available only by conversions.

You missed the point that orks have options for those models, so the warboss would have an option for a warboss with PK, so you could then convert your own if you wanted. Also the vedros boss is cheap on Ebay so you don't need to buy a whole box of marines if you don't want too, but new players often don't mind, and it is a great deal even if you don't do anything with the space marines. <$50 for the Boss, 10 boyz, 5 nobz, and a Kopta. Also very easy to split with someone.


But if someone did not there still exists a models they could buy to field that option. Like I also said I don't mind those HQ having options available for which bits exist. I have an issue where those bits don't exist, or those models don't exist becaue people should not be required to create their own model. I too would be unhappy if I could not convert at all, I'm not saying ban conversions, but you don't need options that don't exist to make conversions. You also keep saying we will lose a lot of options, I already showed you orks don't lose that much. I'm just saying that for new players who get a codex it is awkward for them to see an option in the book and go looking to buy a model that does not exist.

In the Grey Knights previews, GW has been touting a converted Grand Master in a Dreadknight, they even use the C word explicitly, so maybe there's some hope in the future for the rest of us.

Breng77 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
I forgot about them mostly because the big mek in megarmor has always been useless. And that warboss, well you have to buy an entire box full of SM to have it.

Grukk is a named characted and even if you use it as a regular boss you should convert his weapon since no one wants to play with a combi.rokkit. And even that boss comes in a box in which you are forced to buy other stuff which you maybe don't want.

Let's talk about SW for example. 75% of their HQs are available only by kitsbashing. But I don't see any problems in that, those HQs are just regular men, not gigantic superheroes so, converting an existing model should be ok.

The point is we will never receive all the miniatures that we can currently field and without converting our characters we'll lose a lot of options. And this would be bad.

From my perspective assembling, converting and kitbashing the miniatures is the most amusing part of the hobby. I would hate playing with models that can't look unique. And creating a character that is not in the caralogue is challenging. I hate painting for example but I do not wish to have the miniatures already painted in the box. For the same reason it sounds silly to ban the conversions.

I don't see the issue with including stuff that are absent from the catalogue and available only by conversions.

You missed the point that orks have options for those models, so the warboss would have an option for a warboss with PK, so you could then convert your own if you wanted. Also the vedros boss is cheap on Ebay so you don't need to buy a whole box of marines if you don't want too, but new players often don't mind, and it is a great deal even if you don't do anything with the space marines. <$50 for the Boss, 10 boyz, 5 nobz, and a Kopta. Also very easy to split with someone.


But if someone did not there still exists a models they could buy to field that option. Like I also said I don't mind those HQ having options available for which bits exist. I have an issue where those bits don't exist, or those models don't exist becaue people should not be required to create their own model. I too would be unhappy if I could not convert at all, I'm not saying ban conversions, but you don't need options that don't exist to make conversions. You also keep saying we will lose a lot of options, I already showed you orks don't lose that much. I'm just saying that for new players who get a codex it is awkward for them to see an option in the book and go looking to buy a model that does not exist.

Orks won't lose too many units overall, your're right about that, even if in my current list I run two kinds of biker characters (warboss and big mek) and I would be forced to play something completely different, probably that nasty green tide that I hate so much... but think about the other example I showed you, which is the SW case, my second army. They would lose pretty much every non-named HQ available. Every HQ in terminator armor (with the exception of the run priest, that has an ugly 20+ old model in the catalogue), all biker HQs, all HQs with jump packs, every kind of footslogging HQs but iron and rune priests, both with monopose so they couldn't take other wargear. Also every sort of HQs with a thunderwolf mount with the exception of a lord/battle leader with shield and axe, a combination that isn't partcularly effective.

With the possibilty of converting non existing official models, GW can keep much more variety in the game while saving the money they'd need to produce any single option available. They seek profit of course and they won't cover the entire codex with official miniatures, let's not dream about it.

Considering all the existing armies, we'll lose tons of options, that's reality, I'm not referring to orks only. I don't care about new players at all. By the way converting a model into a character is way easier than painting it, tipycally you only need to mix bitz from different official boxes that you would buy anyway, I don't see the issue at all. To be honest I started collecting SW also because I loved the possibility of converting tons of models into customized HQs, if I was forced to play with only official models I would certainly have started another army. For the same reason I started orks and dark eldar even if the majority of the conversions I made for those armies covered existing, but expensive and monopose, models. There are people that are thrilled to convert and kitbash stuff, this is not a bad thing, but IMHO a very good one.

Going back to the original poster, I'm not upset about the cutting of the eavy armor option since you can play the same models as standard boyz without proxying them. Losing the autocannon option for the dread is bad instead, since someone has the models and now they're illegal, even if they're 100% GW plastic and not even particularly old ones.

 Weazel wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Without the pleasure converting and kitbashing and customize my armies I wouldn't even start collecting 40k miniatures

Indeed, I'm genuinely scared GW is lost on this notion in the wake of the chapterhouse debacle.

I think that you are right about this.
Too many chiefs dictating product design, and too many of these come from legal.
Lately, I am hoping that GW keeps screwing the hardcore modeler/wargamer chasing the low-hanging IP and newb credit card flash-purchases.
I am ready for the 41st age, community driven, open to 3rd party providers and free from this corporate copyright nuNaming nonsense.
After they killed the Old World, there is a lot of ground to make up, and making up is NOT what they are doing.
I mean, I was as excited as the next guy coming into 8th edition, but facts speak for themselves.
Dropping support for 'ard boyz, dropping support for Inquistorial retinues, dropping the ball on realism and turning the whole thing into a collectible card game - I am afraid that this is the tip of the sodomy-berg for serious old-school (even middle-school) hobbyists.
And then there is the Repulsor.
Repulsor?
Seriously...? omfg.