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Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Chicago

Hello

I play Grey Knights and would like to create my own named Grandmaster but am having trouble figuring out how to work within the fuff. All the Grandmasters and Brother-Captains are already named. The RPGer in me would prefer my own character as my HQ/Warlord. Any good ideas would be greatly appreciated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far I've come up with this,

Savos Prax is a Grandmaster of the Grey Knights, but in name only. At one time he was Grandmaster of the 7th Brotherhood but was constantly at odds with the rest of the council. He was a young Grandmaster, but earned it through his considerable prowess as a warrior and psyker. He favored an extremely aggressive approach to fighting daemons, yet resisted the Grey Knights method of exterminating all who witness them, feeling this made them worse than the daemons. He argued that they should be revealed to the Imperium as paragons of resisting daemonic influence. An example to strive for. After repeatedly refusing extermination orders, the rest of the council knew he could no longer lead the 7th Brotherhood. Not wanting to lose such a formidable weapon against daemonkind, they offered him an alternative. To lead an unrecorded brotherhood. A brotherhood that acts as knight-errants, foraying into the warp to bring the fight to the daemons homeworlds. He accepted and recruited other like minded grey knights and formed this "lost brotherhood", as they came to be known among the rest if the grey knights.

Thoughts? Comments?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 21:37:02


As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





An extra secret brotherhood feels a little contrived, IMO.

Why not have your Grand Master living around before or after the named ones?


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

Straight talk, he reeks of Mary Sue.

Super good fighter, super good psyker, so much so that he gets to lead an extra turbo secret brotherhood of an already secret brotherhood.

And of course he also completely has his own style of noblebright in the grimdark.

This guy needs to go back to the drawing board, sorry.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Chicago

Certainly wasn't going for mary sue. Guess there's really no way to have your own named grandmaster in the modern era.
Gonna have to go with a librarian I guess. Thanks for the input.

As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

You can have your own Grandmaster, that's not the issue even remotely. The issue was that your character was not -interesting- as a character.

He has no flaws, no drawbacks and ultimately no personality. What you need to do is reel back the need for him to be a huge "gets his own brotherhood and is also an amazing fighter and he also breaks all the operating rules of the Grey Knights" into something more manageable.

What you should do is start fresh with your character and answer these questions, giving each one equal time, attention and care:

What is your character's theme? What is it that he means to you?

What are your character's flaws? What holds him back or gives him pause?

Remember that your character's flaws and weaknesses are where interest and growth come from. Not to be blunt, but Marine characters who are 'the best swordsman in their Chapter' and 'stood against an impossible foe' number in the hundreds here on Dakka. What you need to do is make a deep and interesting character, and that doesn't come from being so good that he breaks the rules.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Chicago

Maybe i used the wrong wordage. I certainly wasn't trying to imply he was the best swordsman or psyker of the grey knights. Just formidable. And the lost brotherhood was just an idea to have him use a grandmaster datasheet. Really there's not much room for a grandmaster who isn't already GW written. Fluff flatly stats there are only 8 at one time. And I wanted to make him current. It was a poor attempt on my part to try justifying it. My creative writing skills apparently seem to be lacking. No big deal. Like I said, I'll just use a librarian as an HQ.

As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

There are 8 grand masters at a time, and only 2 of them are named. You've got room for whatever you want in there. The hard part is making him a compelling character.
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Chicago

Ah ok. So even though they're named in the codex, since there's only two named models the fluff is a little malleable then?

As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. 
   
Made in us
Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot





Here are the current heads of each brotherhood.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grey_Knights#Post-Heresy
   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex





Canada

 Mrs. Esterhouse wrote:
Hello

I play Grey Knights and would like to create my own named Grandmaster but am having trouble figuring out how to work within the fuff. All the Grandmasters and Brother-Captains are already named. The RPGer in me would prefer my own character as my HQ/Warlord. Any good ideas would be greatly appreciated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So far I've come up with this,

Savos Prax is a Grandmaster of the Grey Knights, but in name only. At one time he was Grandmaster of the 7th Brotherhood but was constantly at odds with the rest of the council. He was a young Grandmaster, but earned it through his considerable prowess as a warrior and psyker. He favored an extremely aggressive approach to fighting daemons, yet resisted the Grey Knights method of exterminating all who witness them, feeling this made them worse than the daemons. He argued that they should be revealed to the Imperium as paragons of resisting daemonic influence. An example to strive for. After repeatedly refusing extermination orders, the rest of the council knew he could no longer lead the 7th Brotherhood. Not wanting to lose such a formidable weapon against daemonkind, they offered him an alternative. To lead an unrecorded brotherhood. A brotherhood that acts as knight-errants, foraying into the warp to bring the fight to the daemons homeworlds. He accepted and recruited other like minded grey knights and formed this "lost brotherhood", as they came to be known among the rest if the grey knights.

Thoughts? Comments?


Hey there!

I think that the above posters are being way too hard on you. It's kind of ridiculous. GW puts out far far far more mary Sue Characters, to use the term being thrown about.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Fluff you have created for your Grandmaster, many of these veterans forget that WH40k was about forging your own narrative.

If anything, you should be proud of your efforts to actually create a character for your army to help further personalize and characterize it. I'm not going to name names, but I don't doubt at least one or two of the above posters probably plop down tides of grey plastic on the table, let alone taking some time and effort to try and create their own unique character.

Your character is unique. There is nothing wrong with someone being a 'good guy' in the Grimdark Universe of 40k. Given that everything GW releases nowadays seems to come from Deus Ex Machina like sources, I see no problem with their being an unrecorded on official Imperium Records Chapter of a Chapter that doesn't officially exist.

I think you're off to a great start. Keep it up!
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I'm not going to name names, but I don't doubt at least one or two of the above posters probably plop down tides of grey plastic on the table, let alone taking some time and effort to try and create their own unique character.



Oh, feth off.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





IdentifyZero:

No-one is saying that OP can't create characters with their own stories. To insinuate otherwise is really just plain wrong and insulting, that "if you disagree with OP you're immediately someone who hates all individuality".

As Fafnir said - nothing wrong with making a unique character. It's just that this one really isn't that, well, unique. He just seems very generic, very much " stoic hero who is kind and doesn't actually suffer meaningfully for his uncharacteristic kindness and gets to lead an entire force of SEEEEEEECRET soldiers to do things completely unrelated to his kind nature because he's so good and isn't punished for breaking the rules of his group".
It's just too dull, in my opinion.

There are many ways to work with this. I've got a few proposals:
1. You can scrap the whole "secret brotherhood" thing. It's kinda bad, given that, the grey knights have no reason to call this a "lost brotherhood", due to, well,not losing it, and it having no meaning really. This should just be another entire normal Brotherhood, but of course, there's only the 8. Also, there are still Grey Knights who didn't like killing witnesses, and they are still able to serve normally - however, disobeying orders isn't a Grey Knight thing. I find it nigh-impossible that a Knight could reach Grand Master and still refuse to carry out kill orders. It's like having a Space Marine become a Captain despite being a pacifist.
Furthermore, their mission objective makes little sense. They get sent to daemon worlds, because they're humanitarian? Not really sure I follow.

2. You can fluff having a Grand Master by making your Grand Master one from a different period in time from the current ones. So you could have Grand Master Prax being the leader of the 3rd Brotherhood during M40, which I believe puts him before the current. Then, you can keep his fluff aside from the " lost brotherhood ". However, at that point, what is his character? The only traits you've given him are "young", " considerable prowess" "aggressive", and yet also doesn't like removing witnesses. I don't think that makes for an interesting character, and as thus, needs more work to make him less bland.

So no, IdentifyZero - there's nothing wrong with making a unique character. No one is saying that.
We're just saying that isn't a particularly inspired character, and at the moment, needs work.
Unless, of course, all quality control can be ignored by "forge the narrative".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 13:24:51



They/them

 
   
Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Play orks instead.
Orks are the best.
But if you insist on Mary sue knights,
And are serious about building your own history
Then you might want to take the above comments seriously.
These guys are serious as a heart attack.
I would just skip the grandmaster
And play a lesser character with all the flash I personally wanted.
Less likely to cause offense...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 13:24:02


   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

 IdentifyZero wrote:


Hey there!

I think that the above posters are being way too hard on you. It's kind of ridiculous. GW puts out far far far more mary Sue Characters, to use the term being thrown about.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Fluff you have created for your Grandmaster, many of these veterans forget that WH40k was about forging your own narrative.

If anything, you should be proud of your efforts to actually create a character for your army to help further personalize and characterize it. I'm not going to name names, but I don't doubt at least one or two of the above posters probably plop down tides of grey plastic on the table, let alone taking some time and effort to try and create their own unique character.

Your character is unique. There is nothing wrong with someone being a 'good guy' in the Grimdark Universe of 40k. Given that everything GW releases nowadays seems to come from Deus Ex Machina like sources, I see no problem with their being an unrecorded on official Imperium Records Chapter of a Chapter that doesn't officially exist.

I think you're off to a great start. Keep it up!


Nice passive aggressiveness there, pal. Care to back up any of your claims, or are you just sniping and hoping you don't get called out on it? If you're going to try to be snarky, at least have the rocks to call people out and stop being so cowardly. Also I'll be happy to show you my 8,500 points worth of painted sisters, 2,000 or so of painted Scions, my painted superheavies or maybe my 4,000 some of AoS since apparently that is what's important here.

I like how caring about the fluff and proper writing is now some sign that I don't care about painting (lol wat).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/16 14:33:20


 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Chicago

Alright, lets wash the sand out of our vaginas.

I'm not looking to write fan fiction. I only wanted to use a grandmaster as my warlord and not use a pre-existing character. I see now there's no way to logically have a grandmaster outside of the established 8. I'm a big fan of canon so I'll have to use a different HQ. Probably a brotherhood champion. I think he fits what I'm trying to do just fine. And with the bump in wounds this edition he may actually have some staying power and not just be a kamikaze. Throw on him the cuirass of sacrifice and he just might last the entire battle.

As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Mrs. Esterhouse wrote:
Alright, lets wash the sand out of our vaginas.

I'm not looking to write fan fiction. I only wanted to use a grandmaster as my warlord and not use a pre-existing character. I see now there's no way to logically have a grandmaster outside of the established 8. I'm a big fan of canon so I'll have to use a different HQ. Probably a brotherhood champion. I think he fits what I'm trying to do just fine. And with the bump in wounds this edition he may actually have some staying power and not just be a kamikaze. Throw on him the cuirass of sacrifice and he just might last the entire battle.
Well, not really. There's been at least two main suggestions, if you want to remain canonically true.

1. Use one of the existing ones, even if it's just the name. Only two (I think) of the current GMs have rules and preset backstory. You can easily just play one of the named-but-otherwise-unknown GMs, with the only preset being their name. Their personality and warhead are never canonically mentioned, so you get to decide that.

If picking a name for your model is the deal breaker, you could only use a guy if you yourself named him, then perhaps you could:

2. Have your army be from a time before the "current" GMs. That could mean fluffing it that your guys are fighting a battle in M39, or, on the other end of the spectrum, that your guys might be from M42, and one of the "canon" GMs was killed.

I mean, I play Ultramarines 2nd Company, who had Sicarius commanding them canonically. I wanted to field a scratch built captain, but how canonically? What I fluffed it as was that my guy was an Acting-Captain (probably the equivalent of a Lieutenant now). Sicarius was wounded, or just absent, and my leader was a Veteran Sergeant groomed for Captaincy, justifying the better statline.

If you want a GM canonically, the best way to do it is to just use one of the obscure ones, who has nothing preset aside from their name, or fluff it that your army is from a different time to the one on the list posted above.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex





Canada

I'm not going to bother quoting and individually replying:

#1. This is not Black Library Fiction. This is not Fiction that is being created to be posted. This is for their own army. The collective panty-wadding going on here is ridiculous.

#2. Some of you act like the Keepers and Collators of the Black Library, I find it kind of sad that you can't see over your own noses to help encourage someone, rather than act like they were Matt Ward introducing Kaldor Draigo as the ultimate 40k Mary Sue!

#3. The funny thing is, this concept? It's actually not redundant or overdone in Warhammer 40,000. Can you start naming me off the dozens of Noblebright Grey Knight Space Marines out there? Please, start anytime you're ready.

Go ahead, get riled up and attack me some more.

P.S. To the guy who claimed passive-aggressive, I'm not sure what you think passive is, I was pretty clearly and aggressively calling some of you out for being neckbeards.
   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex





Canada

 Mrs. Esterhouse wrote:
Alright, lets wash the sand out of our vaginas.

I'm not looking to write fan fiction. I only wanted to use a grandmaster as my warlord and not use a pre-existing character. I see now there's no way to logically have a grandmaster outside of the established 8. I'm a big fan of canon so I'll have to use a different HQ. Probably a brotherhood champion. I think he fits what I'm trying to do just fine. And with the bump in wounds this edition he may actually have some staying power and not just be a kamikaze. Throw on him the cuirass of sacrifice and he just might last the entire battle.


You could also just run a Grandmaster stat-line and say he's a Champion.

He could also be a Grandmaster who was lost in the warp. This isn't an uncommon thing in Warhammer 40,000.

I'm sure those Ultramarines that got gated straight from 30k times in Gathering Storm were on the Roster for the 40k Ultramarines?

The point is, GW builds in the ability to do what you like, and what makes you happy when it comes to the fluff and the narrative of your army. ENTIRE Space Marine Chapters have been lost without a word or people knowing they were founded. Depending on which edition you rely on, you've got guys like the Black Templars who were upwards of 5000 men in some source listings!

If you want to have a lost Company, a secret Company, etc. please, do not let these guys discourage you from that. This hobby is about having fun and some people plain forget that in their quest to establish dominance and mastery over others, whether in game or with knowledge they feel they have that others do not.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 IdentifyZero wrote:
I'm not going to bother quoting and individually replying:

#1. This is not Black Library Fiction. This is not Fiction that is being created to be posted. This is for their own army. The collective panty-wadding going on here is ridiculous.

#2. Some of you act like the Keepers and Collators of the Black Library, I find it kind of sad that you can't see over your own noses to help encourage someone, rather than act like they were Matt Ward introducing Kaldor Draigo as the ultimate 40k Mary Sue!

#3. The funny thing is, this concept? It's actually not redundant or overdone in Warhammer 40,000. Can you start naming me off the dozens of Noblebright Grey Knight Space Marines out there? Please, start anytime you're ready.

Go ahead, get riled up and attack me some more.

P.S. To the guy who claimed passive-aggressive, I'm not sure what you think passive is, I was pretty clearly and aggressively calling some of you out for being neckbeards.


Disagreeing with the constructive criticism from other posters (keep in mind that they never attacked the OP with ad hominems, unlike you) doesn't warrant you violating Rule #1 of the forum which is being polite. The fact that you're unable or willing to directly address any of the valid points raised by others in this thread shows that your point has no credibility at all. It certainly is easier to hand-wave rebuttals than it is to actually answer them.
   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex





Canada

 Grimskul wrote:
 IdentifyZero wrote:
I'm not going to bother quoting and individually replying:

#1. This is not Black Library Fiction. This is not Fiction that is being created to be posted. This is for their own army. The collective panty-wadding going on here is ridiculous.

#2. Some of you act like the Keepers and Collators of the Black Library, I find it kind of sad that you can't see over your own noses to help encourage someone, rather than act like they were Matt Ward introducing Kaldor Draigo as the ultimate 40k Mary Sue!

#3. The funny thing is, this concept? It's actually not redundant or overdone in Warhammer 40,000. Can you start naming me off the dozens of Noblebright Grey Knight Space Marines out there? Please, start anytime you're ready.

Go ahead, get riled up and attack me some more.

P.S. To the guy who claimed passive-aggressive, I'm not sure what you think passive is, I was pretty clearly and aggressively calling some of you out for being neckbeards.


Disagreeing with the constructive criticism from other posters (keep in mind that they never attacked the OP with ad hominems, unlike you) doesn't warrant you violating Rule #1 of the forum which is being polite. The fact that you're unable or willing to directly address any of the valid points raised by others in this thread shows that your point has no credibility at all. It certainly is easier to hand-wave rebuttals than it is to actually answer them.


Coming down on a newbie like you're the High Lords of Fluff, when most of you posting here.. are absolute nobodies in that regard, is breaking Rule 1 to. Most of you were unnecessarily critical, hostile and outright demeaning to this person, acting as if your personal interpretation of the 40k Universe is Holier than Thou.

You guys earned what came your way. Just be glad it's only a forum and you still have your pride, even if you lack any sense.

Edit: P.S. What would have been the point of quoting a bunch of people verging on trolling someone to belittle and put down their ideas? They are the ones who are attacking this person and trying to decry what fluff has to be and what the miniature can be. They are the ones who need to prove that GW does not absolutely want you being creative and making up your own thing. They are the ones who need to provide proof of evidence for the arguments they have made. I'm still waiting on a list of similar characters in 40k to what the OP has wanted to do. The closest would be Kaldor Draigo, but he isn't exactly a shining hero who wants to enlighten the masses?

Cheers. Come back when you've got some substance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 22:02:49


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

RULE #1 is taking a beating in here - it needs to STOP.

IMMEDIATELY.

   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Hmm
..

Now I know this been over done but the warp is a tricky place after all.

A grey Knight ship and hi task force is lost in warp, assumed dead, so they assign a new grand master after a apropiate time.
Only they did not die. Just got misplaced. They arrive in present time line. Technically the grandmaster, a d we just have two now at this point.

Bingo. Your grand Master is in present day.

Plus given there nature there more likely to survive a warp blip than regular marines or others.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Chicago

I like the lost in the warp ideas. I used that to justify using a squad of horus era blackshields in Killteam.

But to avoid the inevitable cries of "Draigo ripoff'", how about something like, centuries ago, while attempting to trap a daemon in one of their tesseract labyrinths, it was damaged during the fight, maybe by the daemon somehow. So when the daemon was finally caught and placed within the tesseract, they knew it would not hold him. So the grandmaster volunteered to have his body placed in stasis and his psyche placed in the tessseract to help keep the daemon trapped within. And the grey knights with him were charged with standing guard over his body. The damaged tesseract was unable to weaken the daemon over time like it normally would and the daemon eventually broke free. Maybe with some help due to the return of chaos in this era or maybe it was a daemon lord. Anyway, with the daemon free there is no reason to keep the grandmaster in the tesseract so he was brought back out and returned to his body and awakened from stasis.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/17 00:15:08


As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

That's actually quite good. I dig it.

A few details to iron out, mostly on how tessaract vaults work, but nothing that would sink anything. As far as I know, for this to work, both your Master and the daemon would be placed in the same vault, with no need for a pysche to be separated from the Master's body.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Chicago

I may be reading it wrong but I thought it said something about capturing the daemons energy. And you have to catch it after the daemon leaves its mortal body but before it goes back into the warp. Not quite sure. I'll have to go back and reread it.

Some fleshing out and some added personality and I think I have something here.

As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

 Mrs. Esterhouse wrote:
I may be reading it wrong but I thought it said something about capturing the daemons energy. And you have to catch it after the daemon leaves its mortal body but before it goes back into the warp. Not quite sure. I'll have to go back and reread it.

Some fleshing out and some added personality and I think I have something here.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tesseract_labyrinth

It appears I was a little bit off as well. I was certain that it could trap and imprison physical beings as well. Still doesn't cause too much trouble, though.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

My idea was more a grey knights ship.

So tad boring but less dragio as there's geller Sheilds etc still.

The ship and task force are lost in the warp based blip.
Maybe serfs go mad etc, ship is stranded, it takes them a along time to get back and low and behind warp blip, there now centuries or more out timeline.

Mqyb. Q deamon did it to keep him out way and or as revenge and now sensing him alive is Returning.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/17 07:17:57


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
 
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