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2017/08/21 04:46:24
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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If the strength of the weapon fired is more than twice the toughness of the unit hit, what happens? For example, If I fire an earthshaker cannon ( Str 9) into a group of normal space marines ( T 4).
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2017/08/21 04:48:57
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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It wounds on 2+
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2017/08/21 04:49:54
Subject: Re:8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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Thank you. But does the space marine unit still get a save?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/21 04:50:31
It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2017/08/21 04:52:34
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Saves are only affected by the AP value of the weapon, not the strength.
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2017/08/21 04:53:24
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Irked Necron Immortal
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You wound on 2s
that's all. Things like Instant Death don't exist anymore.
The full breakdown of S v T is:
If T is double or more then the S then Wound on 6s
If T > S but not double then wound on 5s
If T = S then wound on 4s
If T < S then wound on 3s
If S is double or greater then T then wound on 2s (like your S9 vs T4)
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2017/08/21 07:12:33
Subject: Re:8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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There should have been an additional effect if S is twice or more than twice than T. Like rerolling 1s, an additional mortal wound, etc. A gun so powerful should have a devastating effect on low T units.
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2017/08/21 08:11:08
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps
Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry
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A gun that powerful would usually have a good save modifier anyway.
Some guns do more damage instead, being designed for targets other than infantry. Using a Lascannon on a squad is a waste of AT weaponry.
Instant Death is gone, and the game has had the other nasty little rules removed. We asked for it (supposedly), and this is what we got. Not everything about a weapon is its high S value.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/21 08:18:05
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2017/08/21 08:12:04
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Drop Trooper with Demo Charge
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Most heavy hitters already have a good AP value.
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If Khorne needs blood, will drown him in his own blood!
If Slaanesh wants pleasure, then we´ll give him DEATH, the greatest pleasure known to man!
If Tzeentch asks for forbidden knowledge, then we will enlighten him with fear of The God Machine!
If Nurgle wants us to embrace rebirth, then to hell with that, the Guard embrace Death, we live to DIE! |
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2017/08/21 08:47:03
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Skinnereal wrote:A gun that powerful would usually have a good save modifier anyway.
Invuln sv ignores that. A SM company veteran can pick a SS for 5 pts. ignoring any AP value, giving him an 3+ invuln sv.
Skinnereal wrote:
Some guns do more damage instead, being designed for targets other than infantry. Using a Lascannon on a squad is a waste of AT weaponry.
Those guns cost so much, they should have a nasty side effect, even if they dont wound. A lascannon may not kill that company veteran with his SS, he deflects the shot with the shield, but the additional mortal wound would kill another model, he unfortunaly was in the way of the deflected laser blast. If he doesnt save with his SS the laser shot would go right through him and take out the one behind him as well. Sounds fluffy, doesnt it ?
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2017/08/21 18:42:54
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Norn Queen
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No, Instant Death was removed for a reason, the reason being it was frustrating and stupid and punished T3 armies more than SPESS MAHRINES. A basilisk shell that explodes behind a wall behind a barricade and happens to clip the pauldron of your captain should not instagib him. Nor should that same basilisk shell hitting a Captain whizzing along at the speed of round on a bike directly in the face just tickle him.
TL;DR, all Double Strength vs Toughness does now is allow wounding on a 2+ and thank the Manperor of Mankind for that.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/21 18:44:54
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2017/08/21 20:16:52
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Norn Queen
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p5freak wrote:Skinnereal wrote:A gun that powerful would usually have a good save modifier anyway.
Invuln sv ignores that. A SM company veteran can pick a SS for 5 pts. ignoring any AP value, giving him an 3+ invuln sv.
Skinnereal wrote:
Some guns do more damage instead, being designed for targets other than infantry. Using a Lascannon on a squad is a waste of AT weaponry.
Those guns cost so much, they should have a nasty side effect, even if they dont wound. A lascannon may not kill that company veteran with his SS, he deflects the shot with the shield, but the additional mortal wound would kill another model, he unfortunately was in the way of the deflected laser blast. If he doesnt save with his SS the laser shot would go right through him and take out the one behind him as well. Sounds fluffy, doesnt it ?
I disagree with everything you are saying in this thread. 8th is a VERY lethal game with units dieing all over the place. Double strength causing instant death created these hard lines where 1 strength was near useless and another was over powered, Str 7 to Str 8. Str 5 vs Str. Those lines still exist but not it's not useless by comparison. There is more granularity with each step having a rising advantage that doesn't invalidate the things below it. And you want to reverse that, make the game even MORE lethal and make Str 8+ the new Hotness that everyone needs or they might as well pack up and go home?
No Thanks.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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2017/08/21 20:46:24
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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0
You disagree that a SM company veteran can use a SS for 5 pts ? And that the SS ignores any AP value and gives him a 3+ invuln sv ? 
 Lance845 wrote:
8th is a VERY lethal game with units dieing all over the place. Double strength causing instant death created these hard lines where 1 strength was near useless and another was over powered, Str 7 to Str 8. Str 5 vs Str. Those lines still exist but not it's not useless by comparison. There is more granularity with each step having a rising advantage that doesn't invalidate the things below it. And you want to reverse that, make the game even MORE lethal and make Str 8+ the new Hotness that everyone needs or they might as well pack up and go home?
Yes, thats what i want. Once a gun reaches a certain strength level a model simply get vaporized, it ceases to exist. It cannot absorb all the energy. I liked that very much in 7th, because it was more realistic. In 8th a T3 unit can survive a hit from a S16 weapon, thats pathetic, should be impossible. Yes, such a weapon exist. I didnt made that up.
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2017/08/21 21:25:51
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Norn Queen
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p5freak wrote:Yes, thats what i want. Once a gun reaches a certain strength level a model simply get vaporized, it ceases to exist. It cannot absorb all the energy. I liked that very much in 7th, because it was more realistic. In 8th a T3 unit can survive a hit from a S16 weapon, thats pathetic, should be impossible. Yes, such a weapon exist. I didnt made that up.
40k is not realistic. It's never been realistic. Even in the most drug induced hazes of 2nd edition, it wasn't realistic. "It was more realistic" is the most stupid argument imaginable in a game with literal Space Wizards. In no realistic game would you be using artillery on the scale of a 6x4 battlefield. In no realistic game would you use flyers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/21 21:27:17
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2017/08/21 21:51:04
Subject: Re:8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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It was more realistic in 7th.
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2017/08/21 21:55:42
Subject: 8th edition, weapon strength vs unit toughness
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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Asked and answered
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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6000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 
4000 pts - 
1000 pts - 
1000 pts