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2017/08/23 13:52:45
Subject: Chaos Players - Show Me Your Winning Lists
In previous editions, the rules for CSMs have only allowed a few useful army lists. The 8th edition CSM Codex seems to be opening the door to a variety of builds.
At least, I want to believe this is true. Given the hype around Berzerkers and Noise Marines, I get the sense people are ignoring other options. Guilty of this myself, my most competitive lists are built around these units, and I feel like I could be doing more.
If you have a winning CSM list, share it in this thread. Winning does not necessarily mean "competitive," it just means you have used the list to win more games than you lose. Feel free to share a story about your experiences with this list and point out if you think it's competitive or just something to play with a group of friends. Feel free to share several lists.
Here is mine to start. I call this "Fist of the First Turn." It's an alpha strike list based on dropping in Berzerkers with an assault claw. It's a hard counter to Imperial Flyer Spam and also useful against anything with big Heavy Support / Lords of War choices. Noise Marines are there to chew up anything that makes it to mid-field.
Spoiler:
++ World Eaters Battalion Detachment ++
+ HQ +
Exalted Champion: Brass Collar of Borghaster, Chainsword, Mark of Khorne, Plasma pistol
Kharn the Betrayer
+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Khorne . Cultist Champion: Autogun
Chaos Terminators: Mark of Slaanesh . Chaos Terminator Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe . Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe . Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe . Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe . Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
+ Dedicated Transport +
Chaos Rhino: Combi-bolter, Mark of Slaanesh
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/23 13:56:31
It's not my own list, but it's a list that I have faced off against multiple times. I don't have all of the details on points costs unfortunately. It's a list I've played against several times, and it's got just about as many wins as losses against my various forces.
1500 points
HQ's
Lucius the Eternal
Chaos Lord: Chain Sword, bolt pistol
Troops
10 Noise Marines: 8 Sonic Blasters, 2 Blast Masters
10 Noise Marines: 8 Sonic Blasters, 2 Blast Masters
20 Chaos Marines: Chainswords and bolt pistols. Sgt w/ Power Sword.
Heavy Support
Chaos Predator: 4 lascannon shots
Chaos Predator: 4 lascannon shots
The only thing that tends to not pull its weight in our matches, is the blob of Chaos Marines. Their job is to trigger MOTA to fire out of turn shots or chuck an inordinante amount of grenades. They do suceed in distracting me from shooting at the Noise Marines for the most part.
Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750
2017/08/23 15:24:05
Subject: Re:Chaos Players - Show Me Your Winning Lists
Troops: 3 units noise marines 5 marines 3 with sonic blasters 2 stock
Elite: chaos terminators 10 models with combi flamers and power axes
Iron warrior's battalion
HQ: chaos lord
Warpsmith
Troops: 2 unit cultists 30 members
1 unit cultist 10 members
Heavy support: 3 predators with 4 las and a havoc launcher each.
I've found warptime combi flamers are good for clearing out infantry with the double firing stratagem and las predators far and away the best anti tank with the new stratagem. Iron warriors for morale immune cultists and the fluffy warp smith keep the predators alive. EC for obj secured noise marines as my objective grabbers, and the terminators need slaanesh anyways.
2017/08/23 15:33:26
Subject: Chaos Players - Show Me Your Winning Lists
Can't remember specific lists. But here's a unit recap of what I've used.
Winners:
- Abaddon. He's great. Really great. GW made a good decision in their original "blanket characters with buff auras". Previously only helped against Imperium, but now is useful against everyone. Black Legion are probably the best legion solely because of him (hence the poor Legion buff maybe?).
- Helbrute. Just avoid the Multi-melta. Twin Lascannon is almost entirely better. I've heard of success with other build types too.
- Chaos Rhinos. For 7 more points than a bare-bones CSM squad, you get 5 more T7 wounds, with a chance to heal some back, faster speed, and only about half as much shooting power. For 2 additional points it's near even shooting, or spend a little more to effectively get a special weapon. Rhinos are fantastic little suckers, and I regularly try to fit at least 2 in all of my lists, if not 3.
- Poxwalkers. Specifically, when supported by Typhus. These guys seem to be the anti-Conscript. If they ever make contact with Imperial Guard infantry lines at over 10 model strength, the game immediately starts swinging your way as you gain monstrous numbers of them.
Average, but still respectable:
- Foetid Bloat-Drone. Auto-hitting shots is pretty good, and Advancing with this is clutch. It really is Disgustingly Resilient to damage. excited to cast the strength-boosting spell on this.
- Obliterators. Don't believe people; these guys are quite strong. Yes their guns are random, but even their worst case scenario is better than most other guns in your army, and when they top out their rolls they lay down serious damage.
- Magnus. Unlike before, he'll die, but watch out if he lives. Use the new Tzeentch power to buff his Inv. to 3++ rerolling 1's, and I'm sure he's back to king of the psyker castle. Getting 2d6 strength Smites is so wonderful, as you wash away your opponent in a sea of magic.
Still Need to Try:
- Bezerkers. I hear they're very good. Only had them once, and their only target was a Dreadnaught line of Slaughterfist, Bjorn the Fell Handed, and a Veteran Dreadnaught. In that fight they died fast. But otherwise I hear they're good.
- Rubric Marines. Again, used them only once, though they were good then because my opponent was only Primaris Marines. Against that, their +1 save to Dmg 1 weapons gave them resilience against the Primaris Marine's -1AP, making them quite effective against them. Weak Smites from their Sorcerer are no fun. Wished it was full-Smite.
- Defiler @ New Points Value. Used once from the Index and it was terribly overpriced. With a 33% drop in points/power, this guy looks like he might be now worth it. Only suggestion is to commit to a role. My old model didn't have the options that the new ones do, so I'm stuck on my configuration. This guy is one of the best targets for Prescience you'll find.
- Noise Marines. For not a lot more points you get what seems to be a much better unit with much better weapons. What's not to love?
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2017/08/23 16:11:32
Subject: Chaos Players - Show Me Your Winning Lists
Yeah Abaddon is so good that even busted models with missing pieces are going for absurd amounts on ebay. That and how awesome it looks is enough to drive a person to the wargame exclusive version. I would have already jumped but I can't figure out how to paint that sword.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/23 16:12:17
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/08/23 18:07:47
Subject: Chaos Players - Show Me Your Winning Lists
The rest of my army right now is 4x10 CSM with dual Lascannons or dual Missile Launchers, Sorcerer, 3 Defilers (super tough, super fun), and 7 Terminators with mixed gear.
It's basically a firebase with the Defilers pulling double duty in assaults alongside Abaddon.
I may drop the Terminators for 20 berzrkers, but Ive found the telepotation is useful, so right now I'm sticking with them.
Taking a look at Strategems makes me want to swap a Defiler for Havocs, but the Defilers are so good at running interference I have a hard time dropping one, we'll see.
Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 