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Battalion and Outrider Detachment

88pts - Haemonculie - Electroshock Whip
88pts - Haemonculie - Electroshock Whip
73pts - Archon - Agoniser - Blaster

280pts - 7x Grotesques

54pts - 5x Wrack - Agoniser
54pts - 5x Wrack - Agoniser
54pts - 5x Wrack - Agoniser

220pts - 10x Scourges - 4x Darklances
220pts - 10x Scourges - 4x Darklances
216pts - 9x Scourges - 4x Darklances

156pts - Ravager - 3x Darklances - Shock Prow
150pts - Reaper
150pts - Reaper

350pts - Tantalus
350pts - Tantalus

2496pts Total - 8 deployments - 7 CP


Archon and Haemonculus with Grots in a Tantalus, 3 units of Wracks with Haemy in the other Tantalus.

Why 10 man scourges? So many points and you get less heavy weapons. Make them smaller. Consider 5 with 4 blasters.

I think 2x ravagers is better than 2 reaper.

Tantalus is amazing. I love it!

It's certainly different! My only concern is that you don't have much, and at 2500 points your going to be facing some nasty things.

I do have one other concern but only from a practical perspective - 10 Scourge are difficult to place. I assume you plan to back line them and move when necessary to keep alive, but those wings are fiddley and their footprint is deceptively large.

If you plan to deepstrike them, at that size points game it going to be really, really difficult to put them anywhere decent.

I like 10 man units of scourges (in theory at least since I haven't played with it yet, the footprint might be more awkward then anticipated as Sumilidon said).

Units this size help to give me some good anti infanftry shots from the shard carbine and help to protect the dark lances by adding extra bodies to chew through before the big guns start dying.

They do have a lot of mov and the deepstriking allows extra flexibility to help the large footprint to not be too bad. They still have small bases and 30 models isn't a ridiculous amount so I figure it'll still be manageable.

Blasters really don't work as well as dark lances since D3 damage is a lot worst then d6 damage, reducing range by half is a lot to deal with too.

Well if you are at range for the lances (36) then your splinter carbines (18) aren't in range. You also get -1 to hit when you move and shoot the lance. You can get much more efficient landed on a ravager.

10 man Units is bad for de. You suffer greatly from moral and will lost those expensive lances fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider 2 outrider detachment. 3 x5 scourges with just splinters. 3 x5 with 4 blasters or lances. More scoring, less casulties from morale.

 Icelord wrote:
Well if you are at range for the lances (36) then your splinter carbines (18) aren't in range. You also get -1 to hit when you move and shoot the lance. You can get much more efficient landed on a ravager.

10 man Units is bad for de. You suffer greatly from moral and will lost those expensive lances fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider 2 outrider detachment. 3 x5 scourges with just splinters. 3 x5 with 4 blasters or lances. More scoring, less casulties from morale.

surely you only get -1 when it counts as a heavy weapon?? because it counts as an assult wep when shooting anything with the tank/vehicle keyword.

Almightyliham wrote:

 Icelord wrote:
Well if you are at range for the lances (36) then your splinter carbines (18) aren't in range. You also get -1 to hit when you move and shoot the lance. You can get much more efficient landed on a ravager.

10 man Units is bad for de. You suffer greatly from moral and will lost those expensive lances fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider 2 outrider detachment. 3 x5 scourges with just splinters. 3 x5 with 4 blasters or lances. More scoring, less casulties from morale.

surely you only get -1 when it counts as a heavy weapon?? because it counts as an assult wep when shooting anything with the tank/vehicle keyword.

You're getting the Dark lance rule mixed up. It becomes an Assault weapon when mounted on a Vehicle - not when shooting at one.

Split the grots into two units, they count as the same drop since they're both embarked but you can later split them into two different paths if you need to do it. Like you did with wracks.

Sumilidon wrote:

Almightyliham wrote:

 Icelord wrote:
Well if you are at range for the lances (36) then your splinter carbines (18) aren't in range. You also get -1 to hit when you move and shoot the lance. You can get much more efficient landed on a ravager.

10 man Units is bad for de. You suffer greatly from moral and will lost those expensive lances fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider 2 outrider detachment. 3 x5 scourges with just splinters. 3 x5 with 4 blasters or lances. More scoring, less casulties from morale.

surely you only get -1 when it counts as a heavy weapon?? because it counts as an assult wep when shooting anything with the tank/vehicle keyword.

You're getting the Dark lance rule mixed up. It becomes an Assault weapon when mounted on a Vehicle - not when shooting at one.

Yes what this guy was saying. On the scourges they are a heavy weapon with -1 every time they move. Only assault if the weapon is mounted on a vehicle. Take blasters!

Even at -1, i like lances more than blasters on scourges

 AesSedai wrote:
Even at -1, i like lances more than blasters on scourges

I'm a big fan of Dark lances and a scourge myself. The thing people forget is that you're not just choosing a different weapon, you're also choosing a different play style for the unit. Blaster Scourge are ideal for hanging around at 18 inches where you can kite slower units. Dark Lance Scourge make excellent back field fire support (yours in most cases but where you face someone like Tyranids - theirs will do fine as well). There negating their need to move and the heavy weapon weakness.

That said, the unit size weakness could be overcome simply by splitting them into 4 squads of 5 (2 special weapons and 3 carbines each). This will give you more mobility as well.

Sumilidon wrote:

Almightyliham wrote:

 Icelord wrote:
Well if you are at range for the lances (36) then your splinter carbines (18) aren't in range. You also get -1 to hit when you move and shoot the lance. You can get much more efficient landed on a ravager.

10 man Units is bad for de. You suffer greatly from moral and will lost those expensive lances fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider 2 outrider detachment. 3 x5 scourges with just splinters. 3 x5 with 4 blasters or lances. More scoring, less casulties from morale.

surely you only get -1 when it counts as a heavy weapon?? because it counts as an assult wep when shooting anything with the tank/vehicle keyword.

You're getting the Dark lance rule mixed up. It becomes an Assault weapon when mounted on a Vehicle - not when shooting at one.

cheers, just checked... 36 still better than 18 even with the -1 to hit. and that upgrade from d3 to d6.

I like the idea of separating the grots into 2 units.
I'm still unsure of the Blasters but I can kindof see why this would still be able to work, especially to help the shard carbines make sure they are in range.

I do get that small units suffer from morale less but if the opponent dealt enough wounds to cause a strong morale test likely to kill models (should be at least 3-4 wounds of damage), then a min sized unit of scourges would have lost most or all of its dark lances either way. At least a bigger unit gives you a 66% chance to still have all of your dark lances left if the unit took 5 wounds of damage whereas a min sized unit would be completely dead with all dark lances lost.

I'm not convinced of which side is better but I'm tending towards feeling large units are better since they also help to have a lower deployment

lD 8 right? So take 5 wounds. 5+ d6 is average it 8.5 so basically kills a guy. Not terrible but that's an average and a free guy. Yes the lances may live but you still lost 6 models.

sure, your losing 6 models which are 14pts a piece, and saving the 34pts models with these ablative wounds.

The Darklances are the most expensive part of the unit, its a good thing to try to protect them. Minimum sized units will die from a small bolter round and all those dark lances are gone with them.

That's why I wouldn't ever take Lance's on them. They die to bolters. A ravaged with 3 lances can move and fire at full be. Has t6 and 10 wounds. 4+5++. Don't take guns on units when you can get them more efficiently elsewhere.

For example grav on bikes as opposed to infantry last edition.