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Hey guys, I'm trying to build up my Space Marine list and I'm faced with a conundrum.

What's more efficient/better for an army? To have a bunch of MSUs with more special weapons, or to take full squads of 10 and combat squad them?

I have effectively two options when it comes to my Tactical Marines. I can take them in 3 squads of 10, or in 6 squads of 5. At my disposal are 3 Plasma Guns with 3 Combi-Plas Sarges, 2 Melta Guns with 2 Combi-Melta Sarges, and 1 Grav Gun with 1 Combi-Grav Sarge. I have enough regular Bolter guys to fit either strategy. If I pick the x3 10-man squads, I'll have to get picky about special weapons, but if I do x6 5-man squads, I can bring a lot more special weapons to the table.

I also have the Intercessors from the Dark Imperium box, plus one extra, so I could either run them as a full squad of 10, or two small squads of 5 with their own Sarges.

What do you guys think? Having more special weapons is more expensive of course, but it's twice the number of special weapons!

Technically, two small squads each with their own sarges can get four special weapons, where one large squad gets two specials and a heavy. The reasons why you'd go more than five are somewhat limited.

Intercessors don't make sense in 10 man squads. Even their only special weapon option can only fire once a squad (because it actually modifies the current grenade range rather than being a Grenade Launcher...).

It's a trade off

MSU - more special weapons but more drops to deploy (and lose first turn)

Combat squadding - reverse is true

Although Intercessors make no sense MSUing unless you need to open a slot or want the Sergeant

MSU in transports.

 Frozocrone wrote:
It's a trade off

MSU - more special weapons but more drops to deploy (and lose first turn)

Combat squadding - reverse is true

Although Intercessors make no sense MSUing unless you need to open a slot or want the Sergeant

I don't see how Combat Squading makes the reverse true.

From the Space Marines Codex:

"Combat Squads: Before any models are deployed at the start of the game, an Intercessor Squad containing 10 models may be split into two units, each containing 5 models."

I added the emphasis. (other units just replace Intercessor with their unit type.) It seems to me that the only reason to combine squads and then combat squad them is to be able to shoe-horn in units for battleforging. Seems to be a pretty weak reason to loose a sergeant over a regular model, but I can see a rare situation, where you might want to do it.

There's literally ONE situation I would ever wanted to have combat squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
It's a trade off

MSU - more special weapons but more drops to deploy (and lose first turn)

Combat squadding - reverse is true

Although Intercessors make no sense MSUing unless you need to open a slot or want the Sergeant

Intercessors don't make SENSE in large squads.

There are very few reasons to take a ten man squad for either. For Tacs you only take a 10 man if you are footslogging and want 1 less drop (This is not a very good reason, but it is one to consider). For Intercessors it's because you want 1 less drop and are planning on using the Stratagem to split them after the game has started (Still not a good reason, but worth mentioning). Now lately I have been doing the ITC thing with my local players and we roll off to see who goes first, with the person finishing deployment first getting a +1 to this roll. That being the case I don't ever field 10 man units of Tacs or Intercessors anymore.

large squads are useful in that they have their own tactical flexibility, you don't have to combat Squad them every game. For example, If you want a unit of 10 to take advantage of a specific stratagem against a certain enemy in a tournament.

kingleir wrote:
large squads are useful in that they have their own tactical flexibility, you don't have to combat Squad them every game. For example, If you want a unit of 10 to take advantage of a specific stratagem against a certain enemy in a tournament.

What Strategem is worth wasting on Tactical Marines and Intercessors?

Personally I say 5 guys all the way, but not 6 squads. I'd just take the 3 for the battalion and be done, saves more points for the real heavy lifters.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

kingleir wrote:
large squads are useful in that they have their own tactical flexibility, you don't have to combat Squad them every game. For example, If you want a unit of 10 to take advantage of a specific stratagem against a certain enemy in a tournament.

What Strategem is worth wasting on Tactical Marines and Intercessors?

On Tacticals probably none unless it is late game and you still have some CP's left. Intercessors can be good with Bolter Drill though. Their Bolt Rifles are roughly twice as good as a Boltgun against infantry. That said I only take large squads to make buff easier in general. I do take 10 man Intercessor squads a lot, but it is a fluff reason more than a practical one. I almost always Combat Squad them, because more Grenade Launchers are better.

 Captain Garius wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

kingleir wrote:
large squads are useful in that they have their own tactical flexibility, you don't have to combat Squad them every game. For example, If you want a unit of 10 to take advantage of a specific stratagem against a certain enemy in a tournament.

What Strategem is worth wasting on Tactical Marines and Intercessors?

On Tacticals probably none unless it is late game and you still have some CP's left. Intercessors can be good with Bolter Drill though. Their Bolt Rifles are roughly twice as good as a Boltgun against infantry. That said I only take large squads to make buff easier in general. I do take 10 man Intercessor squads a lot, but it is a fluff reason more than a practical one. I almost always Combat Squad them, because more Grenade Launchers are better.

Bolter Drill is only for Imperial Fists, and Sternguard would be a better target because of the extra AP they have.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Captain Garius wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

kingleir wrote:
large squads are useful in that they have their own tactical flexibility, you don't have to combat Squad them every game. For example, If you want a unit of 10 to take advantage of a specific stratagem against a certain enemy in a tournament.

What Strategem is worth wasting on Tactical Marines and Intercessors?

On Tacticals probably none unless it is late game and you still have some CP's left. Intercessors can be good with Bolter Drill though. Their Bolt Rifles are roughly twice as good as a Boltgun against infantry. That said I only take large squads to make buff easier in general. I do take 10 man Intercessor squads a lot, but it is a fluff reason more than a practical one. I almost always Combat Squad them, because more Grenade Launchers are better.

Bolter Drill is only for Imperial Fists, and Sternguard would be a better target because of the extra AP they have.

Plus, Bolter Drill and Masterful Marksmanship stack into a delicious sundae of deadly shots raining down. Add in the fact that more 5-man Squads of Intercessors equals more opportunities for more Command Points, there is never a time where I am taking 10-man squads.