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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Having only played GW boxed board games before, with 8th being my first time actually playing 40k, I'm really loving the game, but there are a couple of things I'm still trying to figure out when to use.

One of those is the Fall Back option during the movement phase.

So far, in games I've played (casual open play), once units are in close combat, there have been a couple of times when it seems a unit I have in close combat would be better off retreating. However, because of movement attributes of each unit involved, most of the time it seems that if I Fall Back, all I do is lose my CC attacks, and the enemy then just gets an extra shooting round and is still close enough to me to charge and fight me in CC anyway. So I don't really gain anything by falling back, and actually end up worse off.

I'm sure I'm just missing the best way to use the Fall Back option, since it obviously is not intended to make your unit worse off. What am I missing? What is really the way Fall Back is beneficial?

-----
brian ® 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Fallback is good if its a unit that can shoot after retreating (ex: Fly units, Guard with Get Back in the Fight), or a screening unit that's so cheap, that falling back makes it easy for the rest of your army to focus the formerly melee-locked enemy down.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I think it is generally believed that the best use of fall back is so that other elements of your army can then shoot at the unit you were engaged to during your shooting phase. It should only be used when you are certain your unit will not win the close combat against the enemy (i.e. enemy CC specialists are attacking your shooty troops in melee).

Also, if you have some flamers or similar the enemy will take another bunch of damage if they try and reengage you in their next turn.

Mark.
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor






You have 3 Marines locked into a unit of 20 Khorne Berserkers.

3 Marines fall back, your whole army can now shoot the marines.

Profit?

Fall back is a amazing option that let's you stagger your deployment against assault heavy armies and tactically fall back, to open the opponent up to your guns.

Heck, even the new UM Chapter trait let's you fall back and shoot all be it with a -1 to hit. IG have a order to fall back and shoot.

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Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal




Fly units naturally have an advantage in that they can retreat and shoot.

If you have a transport in CC you can disembark the unit inside and, assuming you have the room, retreat the Vehicle from CC. Now your disembarked unit should be able to shoot and easily charge the enemy unit.

Retreat and advance to get AROUND an enemy unit to get closer to either an objective or enemy character. Just because you leave combat DOES NOT mean you need to move away from all enemy units.

More obvious stuff like, retreat your Tac Squad so your Assault Squad can charge in and take over combat. Alternatively, retreat your chaff units so that your gunline can then shoot them.
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





People have pointed out a few reasons why you might fall back

1.) Your unit has a rule that lets it operate after falling back (usually shoot, but some can charge)

2.) It allows your other forces to shoot the unit in question.

I would also add

3.) You want to force your opponent to kill that unit in their turn. If your opponents force is a close combat monster, staying in combat allows them to kill you on your turn, and turn elsewhere on their turn, if you fall back you force them to either ignore the unit that fell back, or to waste at least part of their turn killing that unit.

4.) You want to move them onto an objective.

5.) You plan to charge the engaged unit with another tougher unit, and don't want the engaged unit to die in the fight.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Thanks for all the great answers. All of that makes great sense!

-----
brian ® 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fall back has a few good usages:

If you can shoot/charge or do something else afterwards, such as some super heavies, units with fly, etc.

If you want the rest of your army to be able to shoot the unit, which particularly applies to deadly but fragile units (bezerkers).

If you already plan to have a different unit engage them in combat. Being able to fallback and charge is fairly rare, so this generally keeps your unit who fellback from being charged

Also, occasionally it can just be useful to drag out how long it takes the enemy unit to kill you. Falling back denies the enemy an extra combat phase. You aren't dealing damage, but if it's a huge mismatch just dragging things out can at least leave more of your enemy's army occupied.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





Lets say you're the Imperial Guard, and a squad of Berzerkers piled into your screening unit but didn't kill all of them. If your conscripts retreat, you can fire your Manticore at them, otherwise they're going to kill off your remaining Conscripts during the assault phase in your turn and then pile into your tanks at full strength.

Because assault is considerably more dangerous this edition, getting out of it and being able to fire at CQC units is vital.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/06 14:23:56


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Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Call me biased as a guard player, but there are literally no drawbacks unless it's an absolute beatstick unit like a tank.

Just because the unit that fell back can't shoot doesn't mean your army can't shoot.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Almost no draw backs.

its going to suck if say your tank or long range fire base got charged and locked for a hot second meaning it cannot fire during your turn unless it has fly

but then you just leave combat and shoot the bejebus out of the enemy with the rest of your army whom now is in prime shooting range.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/06 16:34:30


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





cedar rapids, iowa

On the flip side it is really easy to "lock" units into close combat to avoid them falling back. (Unless they are flying units)

You just have to surround a surviving model so the unit cannot break away.

 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 sfshilo wrote:
On the flip side it is really easy to "lock" units into close combat to avoid them falling back. (Unless they are flying units)

You just have to surround a surviving model so the unit cannot break away.

Again, call me biased as a guard player, but I have never had this happen.

You cannot rely on that plan unless you're running 30 strong mobz of boyz and getting 2" charges and rolling decently high. Against units with large footprints it will be very difficult to lock them down, if not impossible. And these units with large footprints are often what you need to lock down the most. This is also ignoring things with fly or have super heavy workarounds like Knights and Baneblades.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
 
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