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Lord of Terror CSM Warlord Trait vs. ATSKNF  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Kansas, United States

So, the Lord of Terror CSM Warlord Trait forces the opponent to roll two dice for morale tests and take the higher of the two.

ATSKNF allows the unit to re-roll morale tests.

Does the unit have to re-roll both dice, or can it choose to re-roll a single die?

Death Guard - "The Rotmongers"
Chaos Space Marines - "The Sin-Eaters"
Dark Angels - "Nemeses Errant"
Deathwatch 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





As written, the player would have to re-roll both dice.

Unless specifically noted otherwise, a re-roll must re-roll all of the dice used in the initial roll. If a rule states a unit rolls 2 dice for its morale test, then re-rolling would be re-rolling both dice for that same test. If it's meant to not do that, it'll be FAQ'ed. That being said, I don't know the actual wording of those two interactions.
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Kansas, United States

 Elbows wrote:
As written, the player would have to re-roll both dice.

Unless specifically noted otherwise, a re-roll must re-roll all of the dice used in the initial roll.


Not that I disagree - quite the opposite! - but do you have citations for this result?

The errata specifically calls out dice rolls that ADD TOGETHER their results being required to re-roll all dice involved (charges, etc.). I don't think it automatically applies here, which is why I bring up the interaction.

Thanks in advance!

Death Guard - "The Rotmongers"
Chaos Space Marines - "The Sin-Eaters"
Dark Angels - "Nemeses Errant"
Deathwatch 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





His morale test when affected by Lord of Terror is to roll 2 dice. If he wishes to reroll, he'd have to reroll both unless he has something that lets him reroll only one die (like if he spent a command point to reroll a single die instead of using ATSKNF)). The rules citation would be his rule for rerolling needing to specify rerolling only one die if there are multiple dice being rerolled. Otherwise, rerolling would involve rerolling the whole shebang, all the dice he used in the first roll.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

Reviewed and modified for celerity, removed section was simply underlining what the Opening Poster is getting at because he is technically correct, as there is nothing adding them together...


This was a thought I had while pondering this problem that I found interesting:
Would you not have to determine the Success / Fail state for the lower die, in order to argue it has not failed and doesn't need to be re-rolled?

The first Rule mentioned requires us to do more then simply add a second dice to the test; It also requires us to use a single dice for the result - the highest of the pair. At no point do we have permission to determine if the lowest of the result was a Pass or Failure, it has effectively been 'subtracted' from the equation entirely by the wording of this Rule. It still is there, technically, but we have no way to interact with the number on the face in any meaningful sense. This would leave us concluding that the lower of the dice doesn't get re-rolled, but that is when we encounter something marvelous in my opinion.

Our opponent points out that you must roll an additional dice when carrying out this Test, and I don't think the counter-argument of 're-rolls don't count' or a more believable 'but the lower result still counts as the extra dice being rolled' goes down well with most players. As an Aura effect with no 'per phase' restriction, we are still bound by a Restriction stating that we must roll an extra die while carrying out a Moral Test and to use the highest of the dice. We get handed an extra die in order to ensure we obey the Rule when we re-take the Moral test, and proceed to use the highest of the die to determine the new Result.

Little twisted, but we are dealing with three Rules, one which was Errata'ed, interacting poorly due to Game Workshop never considering Rule interactions that deeply...
The Authors would inform us if they intended for us to re-roll only a single die, as it effectively turns the 'take highest' negative into a slight positive in situations like this.

TLR:-
FOUR, not three, Rules are interacting poorly:-
Base Rule for calculating Moral Result (d6 + Casualties Vs Leadership)
Rule modifying calculating Moral Result (2d6:Takehighest + Casualty Vs Leadership)
Rule granting Re-rolls on failed Results
And Re-Roll Rule itself being hyper-fixated on dice instead of simply saying to re-roll a test/result or some other terminology that means 'whole thing'

Re-rolls for individual dice need to be specific anyway, so why not just look at result?

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2017/09/09 02:56:17


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
 
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