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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Hey, so, I've now done the majority of the white paint job on my maulerfiend bits (at least, I've done the legs and arms and tail, currently unassembled), but I'm not sure how best to "finish" the job. I plan to do the edging in gold, and I have bronze and silver for the mechanical parts, but my next job with a normal colour paint job would be to wash the main panels with either a black wash, or a brown wash, or a dark shade of the colour (dark red wash on a red paint job etc etc).

Not sure what I should do with white though. I have vallejo black wash, umber wash, and a light grey that is on it's way in the post... but I don't want to end up leaving messy patches on the white panels, which normally wouldn't show up on other colours.

I may/will do a bit of trial and error of my own on some scraps of model, but I thought the best idea is to get some tips straight from the experts!

I'm guessing it will involve a wash, but that I should maybe use a thin brush instead of a normal wash brush and only focus on the very edges and seams? How else would you make the paint job look good when finished?

Appreciate any help on this Seems white paint jobs are pretty rare (because they are a bit of a pain, and merciless about mistakes!!)
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader







I don't think there is any way to do a final wash over white. A starting wash, OK, but not as the last step. Just too random and errors are too glaring. Any kind of puddling is going to cause problems.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 kestral wrote:
I don't think there is any way to do a final wash over white. A starting wash, OK, but not as the last step. Just too random and errors are too glaring. Any kind of puddling is going to cause problems.


Well I did a slight wash to start, but in order to get a layer of white I've had to do like 4 thin layers of paint, so the wash is no longer visible anyway... should I wash again, and then do another layer of white over it?

Or what is the alternative?
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

Washing is for shading. You don't need to shade flat areas of white. I'm guessing you have learned in the GW style and it feels odd not to do a step?

It would be easier to recommend with pics, but I'd go for a black wash painted around the inside of the armour trim, not simply washed over the whole surface, but specifically painted, leading most of the panel untouched.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I wasn't sure how helpful pictures would be, but seeing as you said it's be easier with them I took a couple of the bits I've done some of the paintwork for. Hopefully it'll be enough to show what I'm aiming for, and you can give me some tips from there!

The paintwork obviously still needs some tidying up here and there, though I don't think my hands are steady enough to get the lines as perfect as I see on the GW and forgeworld versions aha




   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Id say paint off white, wash black, then repaint up to white in thin layers keep the darker areas darker

looking at the above

id say do the white first before doing the metal details.

easier to go over that than trying to paint around it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/13 23:01:45


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Desubot wrote:
Id say paint off white, wash black, then repaint up to white in thin layers keep the darker areas darker

looking at the above

id say do the white first before doing the metal details.

easier to go over that than trying to paint around it.



Oh, yeh I planned to do the metal bits last, but that leg was a test run to see how the scheme colours might look like put together. I've not done any of the rest of the metalwork, only the white panels.

Edit: Also that's not even white yet, I've been painting in Ghost Grey (Ulthwe Grey) as I figured it would be easier, and leaves me with off-white or skull white as a highlight.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/13 23:04:52


 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

 Desubot wrote:
Id say paint off white, wash black, then repaint up to white in thin layers keep the darker areas darker

looking at the above

id say do the white first before doing the metal details.

easier to go over that than trying to paint around it.


Washing white at any stage is pointless 90% of the time, if you want pure white you end up repainting nearly all of the area, and if you want any sort of graduation in the shading, you end up with a tidemark where you stop painting the white, and any exposed washed area just looks dirty rather than darker.

Trust me, it's laborious, but applying the shading, whether paint or wash, where it's meant to be and only where it's meant to be, gives better results.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Azreal13 wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
Id say paint off white, wash black, then repaint up to white in thin layers keep the darker areas darker

looking at the above

id say do the white first before doing the metal details.

easier to go over that than trying to paint around it.


Washing white at any stage is pointless 90% of the time, if you want pure white you end up repainting nearly all of the area, and if you want any sort of graduation in the shading, you end up with a tidemark where you stop painting the white, and any exposed washed area just looks dirty rather than darker.

Trust me, it's laborious, but applying the shading, whether paint or wash, where it's meant to be and only where it's meant to be, gives better results.


I mean i usually just oil wash everything so eh.

   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

Yeah, much easier to clean up an oil wash.

@OP

I think I might have an idea of what you're shooting for, at least in part..

[Thumb - IMG_1324.JPG]


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, much easier to clean up an oil wash.

@OP

I think I might have an idea of what you're shooting for, at least in part..




Haha, nice! Might be the only other white maulerfiend I've seen, didn't find any on google search.

So why are oil washes better? Are they the ones where I would varnish the whole model and then apply the oil wash, and the wash can be cleaned up with a cotton bud and white spirit?

Still not sure what I should do next to finish the white, before I then move on to the rest of the colours haha

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/13 23:19:13


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I routinely use extremely thin blue, black, or brown washes on my whites. I find it tends to smooth the transition from the base color through the highlights.

The trick is to use a mix of acrylic medium and water to dilute the ink, with just a touch of some form of soap to break up surface tension and reduce tide marks.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

Niiru wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, much easier to clean up an oil wash.

@OP

I think I might have an idea of what you're shooting for, at least in part..




Haha, nice! Might be the only other white maulerfiend I've seen, didn't find any on google search.

So why are oil washes better? Are they the ones where I would varnish the whole model and then apply the oil wash, and the wash can be cleaned up with a cotton bud and white spirit?

Still not sure what I should do next to finish the white, before I then move on to the rest of the colours haha


Yes, oil washes have two chief advantages, firstly they will "wick" along gaps and joins a lot more easily, meaning for things like armour panels they can get very precise results in little time, and they can be cleaned up for quite some time after application, meaning mistakes can be corrected and the finish can be manipulated, pretty much back to square one, for quite some time until you're happy with the result.

Down side is they do require a little more prep before application.

Full disclosure I used an airbrush for the white on my Fiend, life's too short!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

If you're squeamish about using oil... you can go 'half way', which is what I always do for yellow and white.

Gloss the crap out of the model - use washes like normal and wipe off excess from flat areas with a brush or paper towel or qtip. You have WAY less time to clear flat areas than you do with oil, but the gloss keeps it from immediately absorbing into the top layer of paint.

So gloss gloss gloss until it's really shiny, wash as you would, wipe excess quickly, then matte varnish. Then do metallics.

Oil is nice to work with though, but it does require extra steps and tougher cleanup and stinky "odorless" thinners etc.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/13 23:32:42


Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Gunzhard wrote:
If you're squeamish about using oil... you can go 'half way', which is what I always do for yellow and white.

Gloss the crap out of the model - use washes like normal and wipe off excess from flat areas with a brush or paper towel or qtip. You have WAY less time to clear flat areas than you do with oil, but the gloss keeps it from immediately absorbing into the top layer of paint.

So gloss gloss gloss until it's really shiny, wash as you would, wipe excess quickly, then matte varnish. Then do metallics.

Oil is nice to work with though, but it does require extra steps and tougher cleanup and stinky "odorless" thinners etc.





Is there an alternatives to washes to get a nice end result on white areas? I may try the method someone said of just applying the "wash" to the crevices and edges, instead of actually washing the whole area, and see what happens...

Is there a recommendation of what colour to use? I was thinking of mixing light grey wash with a touch of either blue or umber
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

Niiru wrote:
 Gunzhard wrote:
If you're squeamish about using oil... you can go 'half way', which is what I always do for yellow and white.

Gloss the crap out of the model - use washes like normal and wipe off excess from flat areas with a brush or paper towel or qtip. You have WAY less time to clear flat areas than you do with oil, but the gloss keeps it from immediately absorbing into the top layer of paint.

So gloss gloss gloss until it's really shiny, wash as you would, wipe excess quickly, then matte varnish. Then do metallics.

Oil is nice to work with though, but it does require extra steps and tougher cleanup and stinky "odorless" thinners etc.





Is there an alternatives to washes to get a nice end result on white areas? I may try the method someone said of just applying the "wash" to the crevices and edges, instead of actually washing the whole area, and see what happens...

Is there a recommendation of what colour to use? I was thinking of mixing light grey wash with a touch of either blue or umber


Painting just in the crevices is definitely the idea but the white paint will still absorb a lot of paint ... unless you gloss gloss gloss!

I would paint a gradient of darker blue-grey, to grey, to light grey, to white... but this is different than the wash. Got an airbrush any chance?

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Gunzhard wrote:
Niiru wrote:
 Gunzhard wrote:
If you're squeamish about using oil... you can go 'half way', which is what I always do for yellow and white.

Gloss the crap out of the model - use washes like normal and wipe off excess from flat areas with a brush or paper towel or qtip. You have WAY less time to clear flat areas than you do with oil, but the gloss keeps it from immediately absorbing into the top layer of paint.

So gloss gloss gloss until it's really shiny, wash as you would, wipe excess quickly, then matte varnish. Then do metallics.

Oil is nice to work with though, but it does require extra steps and tougher cleanup and stinky "odorless" thinners etc.





Is there an alternatives to washes to get a nice end result on white areas? I may try the method someone said of just applying the "wash" to the crevices and edges, instead of actually washing the whole area, and see what happens...

Is there a recommendation of what colour to use? I was thinking of mixing light grey wash with a touch of either blue or umber


Painting just in the crevices is definitely the idea but the white paint will still absorb a lot of paint ... unless you gloss gloss gloss!

I would paint a gradient of darker blue-grey, to grey, to light grey, to white... but this is different than the wash. Got an airbrush any chance?


Nope no airbrush, and no place to set up an airbrush station except in the garage (and its cold, stormy and rainy for the next 6 months lol)

Also doubt I have a steady enough hand to do 4 colours of gradient... especially as ive already done ghost grey all over the models now, and stripping them isnt an option ... I already started with darker grey and then did ghost grey (same as ulthwe grey) over it
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

You could lahmian medium to build up some highlight layers from your ghost grey to white. I just use water, but it takes a little getting used to, lahmian medium should make it easier.

That's just showing the light, and absence of light, on your flat white areas though, the wash is different. Use the wash to give little details and crevices that 3d shadow, for this with light colors I always gloss first.

Vallejo game colour gloss is surprisingly good and easy to use with a regular brush.It's water based so you can, and should thin it with water to get smooth results.

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Gunzhard wrote:
You could lahmian medium to build up some highlight layers from your ghost grey to white. I just use water, but it takes a little getting used to, lahmian medium should make it easier.

That's just showing the light, and absence of light, on your flat white areas though, the wash is different. Use the wash to give little details and crevices that 3d shadow, for this with light colors I always gloss first.

Vallejo game colour gloss is surprisingly good and easy to use with a regular brush.It's water based so you can, and should thin it with water to get smooth results.


I've only found Vallejo -model- colour gloss, not game colour... are they likely to be different?
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

That's fine too. Just thin it.

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Niiru wrote:
 Gunzhard wrote:
You could lahmian medium to build up some highlight layers from your ghost grey to white. I just use water, but it takes a little getting used to, lahmian medium should make it easier.

That's just showing the light, and absence of light, on your flat white areas though, the wash is different. Use the wash to give little details and crevices that 3d shadow, for this with light colors I always gloss first.

Vallejo game colour gloss is surprisingly good and easy to use with a regular brush.It's water based so you can, and should thin it with water to get smooth results.


I've only found Vallejo -model- colour gloss, not game colour... are they likely to be different?


Same stuff. There isnt a specific "Game Color" varnish.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

You thinking about the black label stuff? Cuz I'm not certain if that is water based (think it is), but the Model and Game versions are.

I'm talking about this, Game varnish... https://www.bnamodelworld.com/bmz_cache/8/8a97d2ed49edd88b51298da9e14f4cfe.image.710x950.jpg

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/14 16:56:56


Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000PH9JPA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001JJZDSK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&th=1


Thats the matt and gloss varnish I found. Doesn't actually say Model on the bottle I notice, but it's under the model range of paints on amazon for some reason.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

Description says they're also water based.

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Gunzhard wrote:
Description says they're also water based.


I'm confused, did I want water based? Or am I meant to be looking for oil based?
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

Hahaha yes you want water based, for brush on varnish anyway, because you can easily thin it. But, make sure you really let it dry before doing stuff on it.

Unless of course you're using oil paints then everything is different...

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Gunzhard wrote:
Hahaha yes you want water based, for brush on varnish anyway, because you can easily thin it. But, make sure you really let it dry before doing stuff on it.

Unless of course you're using oil paints then everything is different...


Nope, all my paints are vallejo game colour so water based. Thanks I'll pick up a pot of gloss and a pot of matte,and make sure to water it down before I start coating my bits :p]


So I guess the next question would be, how much should I paint first? Should I only paint the white areas, then gloss, then wash/highlight, then ... I dunno, gloss again, before painting all the silver/gold parts? Then one more gloss / matte coat to finish? This seems like a lot of coats.

Or should I do all the base colours (white, red, gold, bronze, silver), then gloss, then wash and highlight everything, then final gloss/matte. Less coats, I assume would be better?
   
Made in us
Nimble Mounted Yeoman





Texas

@Gunzhard has you going in the right direction. I had a bunch of white cloaks that were white, but I wanted a quick shade in the recessed areas and to help where colors transition. I tried a thinned out Nuln Oil wash, and it darkened the white too much, looked splotchy and bad. Here is what I did and really liked the results:

1. Paint the white area with clear semi-gloss acrylic. I used Testors brand.
2. When dry, mix up a bit more semi-gloss clear with a touch of black wash and some water to thin it out. Put this on, just like a wash.
3. When dry, go back and hit any raised areas with white or dry brush with white to make the raised areas as white as possible.

This gave the recessed areas a slightly darkened look without being too dark or obnoxious puddling. I did have to play around a bit with how much black wash I added to the mix, IIRC, but came out very nice.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/ 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

Niiru wrote:
 Gunzhard wrote:
Hahaha yes you want water based, for brush on varnish anyway, because you can easily thin it. But, make sure you really let it dry before doing stuff on it.

Unless of course you're using oil paints then everything is different...


Nope, all my paints are vallejo game colour so water based. Thanks I'll pick up a pot of gloss and a pot of matte,and make sure to water it down before I start coating my bits :p]


So I guess the next question would be, how much should I paint first? Should I only paint the white areas, then gloss, then wash/highlight, then ... I dunno, gloss again, before painting all the silver/gold parts? Then one more gloss / matte coat to finish? This seems like a lot of coats.

Or should I do all the base colours (white, red, gold, bronze, silver), then gloss, then wash and highlight everything, then final gloss/matte. Less coats, I assume would be better?


Yeah the latter is more like it. You really only need to gloss once, unless you're just doing the 2nd gloss for gaming / handling protection, or decals. I prefer to base coat everything, except metallics, gloss, add decals, wash, (gloss again if using decals), matte, then do metallics... but I'm sure you can find your own favorite method.

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Gunzhard wrote:
Niiru wrote:
 Gunzhard wrote:
Hahaha yes you want water based, for brush on varnish anyway, because you can easily thin it. But, make sure you really let it dry before doing stuff on it.

Unless of course you're using oil paints then everything is different...


Nope, all my paints are vallejo game colour so water based. Thanks I'll pick up a pot of gloss and a pot of matte,and make sure to water it down before I start coating my bits :p]


So I guess the next question would be, how much should I paint first? Should I only paint the white areas, then gloss, then wash/highlight, then ... I dunno, gloss again, before painting all the silver/gold parts? Then one more gloss / matte coat to finish? This seems like a lot of coats.

Or should I do all the base colours (white, red, gold, bronze, silver), then gloss, then wash and highlight everything, then final gloss/matte. Less coats, I assume would be better?


Yeah the latter is more like it. You really only need to gloss once, unless you're just doing the 2nd gloss for gaming / handling protection, or decals. I prefer to base coat everything, except metallics, gloss, add decals, wash, (gloss again if using decals), matte, then do metallics... but I'm sure you can find your own favorite method.



I'll have to trial and error on the metallic trim, as I have both the vallejo metallic paints and some of the metallic sharpie pens (which are really good for colour, but I don't know if they will run or streak when a varnish is applied...)
   
 
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