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2017/09/26 05:13:52
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Hey guys,
Does anyone know if a Space Marine Chapter has been revived? For example - A scenario that popped to mind was that a Loyalist Chapter was wiped out and their Fortress Monastery in their homeworld fell into disuse as a result before the Chapter's Gene-Seed was used to effectively recreate the Chapter in a subsequent Founding.
Thoughts?
Cheers
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2017/09/26 09:26:50
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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I imagine the Celestial Lions have been supplemented by some Primaris Marines, and the Astral Knights may have been rebuilt too. The Scythes of the Emperor have been near-destroyed twice, so Primaris reinforcement is a good call too.
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They/them
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2017/09/26 14:32:45
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Dakka Veteran
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Didn't that basically happen to Imperial Fists sometime shortly after HH?
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2017/09/26 14:36:05
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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ulgurstasta wrote:Didn't that basically happen to Imperial Fists sometime shortly after HH?
Yeah, it's part of the "War Of The Beast" storyline, then they end up being reconstituted from their successor chapters
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2017/09/26 14:37:12
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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I have not seen examples of this in the fluff, but have seen many examples of gene-seed strains being discontinued for performance reasons. The Inquisition would probably be involved if this happened, and they are not known for fair-handed judgement.
Sadly, I think a Chapter that is wiped out would be left that way.
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2017/09/26 14:45:49
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Stubborn Prosecutor
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The rulebook fluff mentions it, but we haven't seen a real example of it beyond the Imperial Fists. I'm not certain what the value would be - why carry all the baggage of a failed chapter when you could just spin the Imperial Wheel of Mascots, pair it with whatever color the administratium has at the moment, and form a new chapter.
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Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series |
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2017/09/26 16:52:40
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes
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Blood Angels were rebuilt at one point, likely from their Successors after they were reduced to a hand full of Marines. It theorized that after the First Tyrannic War, the Ultramarines drew Marines from a Successor.
Crimson Fists, Scythes of the Emperor and likely many of the Chapters at Baal were rebuilt with Primaris.
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2017/09/27 15:04:25
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Pre-Primaris the Imperium seemingly favoured replacement: In the 5th edition codex the Sable Swords chapter was created to replace the Astral Knights, whilst the old first edition fluff had the Mentors reusing the chapter number and uniform of the failed Star Scorpions chapter.
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2017/09/27 15:14:29
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Confessor Of Sins
WA, USA
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I think alot of it depends on the nature of the chapter's destruction.
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Ouze wrote:
Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
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2017/09/27 20:13:51
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Implacable Skitarii
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Didn't BA just took not yet implanted aspirants of Successors?
At least in some BL book ('Red Fury"?) iirc BA CM asked that from successors...
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Without passion we'd be truly dead. |
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2017/09/27 20:16:14
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes
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chyron wrote:
Didn't BA just took not yet implanted aspirants of Successors?
At least in some BL book ('Red Fury"?) iirc BA CM asked that from successors...
Taking their aspirants doesnt preclude being rebuilt from their Successors. Also seems like there was at least two different times this happened. Once because of a Space Hulk and the other time because the Black Legion almost destroyed them.
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2017/09/27 20:30:21
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Confessor Of Sins
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ChargerIIC wrote:The rulebook fluff mentions it, but we haven't seen a real example of it beyond the Imperial Fists. I'm not certain what the value would be - why carry all the baggage of a failed chapter when you could just spin the Imperial Wheel of Mascots, pair it with whatever color the administratium has at the moment, and form a new chapter.
Because some famous Chapters are too big symbols to let fall. Kind of how Rome dealt with Legions IIRC - a good famous one getting wiped out (or close to) was rebuilt with the same number and name, one going traitor or getting destroyed in a particularly humiliating way might be left dead. Those Chapters carrying the name of an original Legion - or their famous successors from the Chapter reorganisation - would probably be rebuilt no matter the cost as long as they weren't killed while chanting Chaos hymns and wearing Chaos symbols on their armor.
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2017/09/28 16:40:57
Subject: Re:Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Because of the timeline of events, would the Lamenters chapter be rebuilt using Primaris marines or are they still on the bad and wrong list from the fallout of the Badab war and subsequent penitent crusade, what was left of them, are on?
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Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
>Raptors Lead the Way < |
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2017/09/28 17:13:09
Subject: Re:Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Stubborn Prosecutor
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Zakiriel wrote:Because of the timeline of events, would the Lamenters chapter be rebuilt using Primaris marines or are they still on the bad and wrong list from the fallout of the Badab war and subsequent penitent crusade, what was left of them, are on?
Since Gulliman doesn't have a horse in the race about the badab war and cawl doesn't care, I don't see why not. Gulliman seems pretty willing to forgive whatever happened while he was gone so long as it wasn't outright supporting his traitor brother primarchs.
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Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series |
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2017/09/28 22:54:55
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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My understanding is that Dark Imperium novel gives 'now' as 115 years after the destruction of Cadia. The Lamenters, Mantis Warriors and Executioners only had 13 years left of their penitent crusade at the outset of the 13th Black Crusade.
I'd argue that if Guilliman *did* distrust them, the likely outcome is that he would force them to accept Primaris reinforcements that were loyal to him.
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2017/09/29 00:25:06
Subject: Re:Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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That is an interesting statement, in that the Primaris Marines are loyal to Guilliman personally.
But I do also feel you are right about the Primaris being offered to them as reinforcements since the most current military situation requires every unit available to fight.
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Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
>Raptors Lead the Way < |
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2017/09/29 01:07:09
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Spetulhu wrote: ChargerIIC wrote:The rulebook fluff mentions it, but we haven't seen a real example of it beyond the Imperial Fists. I'm not certain what the value would be - why carry all the baggage of a failed chapter when you could just spin the Imperial Wheel of Mascots, pair it with whatever color the administratium has at the moment, and form a new chapter.
Because some famous Chapters are too big symbols to let fall. Kind of how Rome dealt with Legions IIRC - a good famous one getting wiped out (or close to) was rebuilt with the same number and name, one going traitor or getting destroyed in a particularly humiliating way might be left dead. Those Chapters carrying the name of an original Legion - or their famous successors from the Chapter reorganisation - would probably be rebuilt no matter the cost as long as they weren't killed while chanting Chaos hymns and wearing Chaos symbols on their armor.
Pretty much this. If a Chapter is historically or culturally significant to the wider Imperium, then chances are good the HLoT will be wanting to resurrect it. Never underestimate the power of symbols. A Chapter that has a long and glorious history behind its name is much more valuable than a completely new one.
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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2017/10/06 01:23:15
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Exactly. Chapters are like sports teams. Sometimes you lose the whole team at once, but you keep the symbols and history and start over with new players. But its still the same team, since the entire concept of a team is metaphorical anyway.
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2017/10/06 12:37:56
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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... and now I have to make the Mighty Ducks chapter. Thanks Argonak.
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2017/10/06 17:55:35
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Bounding Assault Marine
Leominster
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Gashrog wrote:My understanding is that Dark Imperium novel gives 'now' as 115 years after the destruction of Cadia. The Lamenters, Mantis Warriors and Executioners only had 13 years left of their penitent crusade at the outset of the 13th Black Crusade.
I'd argue that if Guilliman *did* distrust them, the likely outcome is that he would force them to accept Primaris reinforcements that were loyal to him.
I really like to imagine that Gulliman looked at the whole Badab war, what led up to it and drove the Astral Claws over the edge and just lost his gak at how fethed up the IoM is.
Like a good solid 15 min rant with his trusted captains just standing there like "Oh gak...what do we do? Do we comfort him? Do we agree? Do we leave?"
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"I was never a Son of Horus. I was and remain a Luna Wolf. A proud son of Cthonia, a loyal servant of the Emperor."
Recasts are like Fight Cub. No one talks about it, but more people do it then you realize.
Armies.
Luna Wolves 4,000 Points
Thousand Sons 4,000 Points. |
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2017/10/07 08:04:59
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Iron_Captain wrote:Spetulhu wrote: ChargerIIC wrote:The rulebook fluff mentions it, but we haven't seen a real example of it beyond the Imperial Fists. I'm not certain what the value would be - why carry all the baggage of a failed chapter when you could just spin the Imperial Wheel of Mascots, pair it with whatever color the administratium has at the moment, and form a new chapter.
Because some famous Chapters are too big symbols to let fall. Kind of how Rome dealt with Legions IIRC - a good famous one getting wiped out (or close to) was rebuilt with the same number and name, one going traitor or getting destroyed in a particularly humiliating way might be left dead. Those Chapters carrying the name of an original Legion - or their famous successors from the Chapter reorganisation - would probably be rebuilt no matter the cost as long as they weren't killed while chanting Chaos hymns and wearing Chaos symbols on their armor.
Pretty much this. If a Chapter is historically or culturally significant to the wider Imperium, then chances are good the HLoT will be wanting to resurrect it. Never underestimate the power of symbols. A Chapter that has a long and glorious history behind its name is much more valuable than a completely new one.
And the main rebuild examples all stem from famous first and second founding chapters. Both have very long and ancient histories.
Post Di they are reinforcing everyone with new marines to brace for the coming storm and also to reclaim lost worlds.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/10/09 06:17:47
Subject: Re:Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Zakiriel wrote:That is an interesting statement, in that the Primaris Marines are loyal to Guilliman personally.
But I do also feel you are right about the Primaris being offered to them as reinforcements since the most current military situation requires every unit available to fight.
Primaris Marines are also made up of individuals closer to the time of the Heresy so could also likely help guide divergant chapters closer to their original teachings. Automatically Appended Next Post: LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote: Gashrog wrote:My understanding is that Dark Imperium novel gives 'now' as 115 years after the destruction of Cadia. The Lamenters, Mantis Warriors and Executioners only had 13 years left of their penitent crusade at the outset of the 13th Black Crusade.
I'd argue that if Guilliman *did* distrust them, the likely outcome is that he would force them to accept Primaris reinforcements that were loyal to him.
I really like to imagine that Gulliman looked at the whole Badab war, what led up to it and drove the Astral Claws over the edge and just lost his gak at how fethed up the IoM is.
Like a good solid 15 min rant with his trusted captains just standing there like "Oh gak...what do we do? Do we comfort him? Do we agree? Do we leave?"
I doubt it, he proably looked at the Badb war and said "THANK GOD I BROKE THE LEGIONS UP"
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/09 06:18:20
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2017/10/09 06:26:27
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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BUT ROBOUTE BREAKING THE LEGIONS IS STUPID BECAUSE I HATE ULTRAMARINES
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2017/10/09 07:27:09
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Fixture of Dakka
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How are Primaris Marines from people closer to the Heresy?
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2017/10/09 10:12:14
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Confessor Of Sins
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pm713 wrote:How are Primaris Marines from people closer to the Heresy?
IIRC (from what people have discussed about the story here on the forum) the first batch was already made and stored in stasis when Guilliman was wounded, so they're pretty old.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/09 10:12:30
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2017/10/09 10:13:51
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote: Gashrog wrote:My understanding is that Dark Imperium novel gives 'now' as 115 years after the destruction of Cadia. The Lamenters, Mantis Warriors and Executioners only had 13 years left of their penitent crusade at the outset of the 13th Black Crusade. I'd argue that if Guilliman *did* distrust them, the likely outcome is that he would force them to accept Primaris reinforcements that were loyal to him. I really like to imagine that Gulliman looked at the whole Badab war, what led up to it and drove the Astral Claws over the edge and just lost his gak at how fethed up the IoM is. Like a good solid 15 min rant with his trusted captains just standing there like "Oh gak...what do we do? Do we comfort him? Do we agree? Do we leave?"
I smell a "Guilliman discovers the state of the IoM in the 41st Millennium Downfall parody"!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/09 10:16:25
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2017/10/09 11:59:40
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Fixture of Dakka
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Spetulhu wrote:pm713 wrote:How are Primaris Marines from people closer to the Heresy?
IIRC (from what people have discussed about the story here on the forum) the first batch was already made and stored in stasis when Guilliman was wounded, so they're pretty old.
Woooooow
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2017/10/09 17:47:19
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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pm713 wrote:Spetulhu wrote:pm713 wrote:How are Primaris Marines from people closer to the Heresy?
IIRC (from what people have discussed about the story here on the forum) the first batch was already made and stored in stasis when Guilliman was wounded, so they're pretty old.
Woooooow
It's kinda cool though because Cawl does what he feel likes.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2017/10/10 11:47:51
Subject: Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Fixture of Dakka
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:pm713 wrote:Spetulhu wrote:pm713 wrote:How are Primaris Marines from people closer to the Heresy?
IIRC (from what people have discussed about the story here on the forum) the first batch was already made and stored in stasis when Guilliman was wounded, so they're pretty old.
Woooooow
It's kinda cool though because Cawl does what he feel likes.
Kinda dumb and counter to the story too.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2017/10/10 19:00:07
Subject: Re:Revived Space Marine Chapters
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Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds
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Zakiriel wrote:Because of the timeline of events, would the Lamenters chapter be rebuilt using Primaris marines or are they still on the bad and wrong list from the fallout of the Badab war and subsequent penitent crusade, what was left of them, are on?
I actually play an all Primaris Lamenters army, my fluff for them is that when Guilliman was researching what he had missed in his millennia in stasis he came across the Badab War and learned the fate of the Lamenters, then deemed them worthy to serve the Imperium again.
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GW 2016 is like meeting your old frigid girlfriend in a bar, and she's drunk, had a makeover, and is telling you dirty jokes. Suddenly you remember why you loved her. - Tamereth |
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