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I really like assault in 8th edition 40k. I want to start an army that is fun in melee but is tough enough not to get blown off the table before getting across the board. I know Death Guard is probably the go to army for this, but what are other armies I could run that are similar? I don't want to be the millionth person to hop on the DG bandwagon.

Well, you'll have to look at "getting across the board" first. Do you like the idea of transports? Deep-striking, jump packs, or fast vicious beasties?

Generally speaking it does appear that assault-based armies are getting sucker punched quite a bit...so perhaps not a great route to go at the moment.

Khornate Berserkers (World Eaters): Just use transports and unload those peeps all over the place

Wulfen: Have special melee rules

Slaaneshi demons: Always attack first on, including being assaulted

That's off of the top off my head

I might hazard a guess at space wolves? Thunderwolves are pretty tough and hard-hitting (but expensive) melee units.

Grey knights are quite durable too, and their whole army deep strikes, so your opponent generally has one turn to shoot them before melee.

Blood angels love their jetpacks and dreads.

Orks certainly aren't a durable melee army, but tend to have a lot of infantry, if nothing else.

Of course, with 8th giving everything a massive up-gunning and basically removing cover mechanics from the game for orks, hordes are less of an attractive option.

You could go for the Genestealers + Trygon Hole tactic. It's less "tanking shots as they walk up the board" and more "popping up behind your enemy and extrapolate his anus while he shouts profanities at you".

Otherwise, yeah, T-wolves.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I might hazard a guess at space wolves? Thunderwolves are pretty tough and hard-hitting (but expensive) melee units.

Grey knights are quite durable too, and their whole army deep strikes, so your opponent generally has one turn to shoot them before melee.

Blood angels love their jetpacks and dreads.

Orks certainly aren't a durable melee army, but tend to have a lot of infantry, if nothing else.

Of course, with 8th giving everything a massive up-gunning and basically removing cover mechanics from the game for orks, hordes are less of an attractive option.

From all that I've played of 8th, swarm armies have dominated, as there are few armies that can put out enough damage to kill swarms. I'd like to be able to take on swarms...as I've lost the last few games against them.

Jeanstealers ambushing/onslaughting. Mix some GSC to ambush and Vanilla nids to onslaught.

Nothing is more resilient in melee than a dreadnought.

Thunderwolf cavalry are 60pts with a storm shield. T5 3W 3+/3++, 10" move, more options for melee weapons than any other marine unit in the game, on every model if you want.
With base Chainsword they get 3 st4 ap- attacks and 3 st5 ap-1 attack.
Possibility of replacing chainsword with:
Frost axe (power axe with +1S)
Frost sword (power sword with +1S)
Lightning claw
Power axe
Powerfist
Power maul
Power sword
Thunder hammer
Wolf claw (Lightning claw with +1S)
Possible character buffs that can keep up include:
Reroll 1s to hit
Reroll 1s to wound
Reroll all missed hits in fight phase + heal d3 wounds a turn
Reroll all 1s to wound and every model gains a st5 ap-1 attack
Use of a higher leadership

Psychic buffs include
+1 save as they count as being in cover. WC6
An opponents unit at -1 to hit. WC6

Thunderwolf cavalry are keeping the deathstar alive.

SWs also have the toughest Dread avaliable as their venerable can have a blizzard shield for T7 W8 3+/3++/6+++

Poly Ranger wrote:
Thunderwolf cavalry are 50pts with a storm shield.

Nooooo they are not. They are 60pts. Thunderwolf Cavalry Storm Shields cost 15pts.

Thunderwolf cavalry are keeping the deathstar alive.

No they are not. T5 isn't nearly as good as it used to be, 3W on a T5 model isn't nearly as good as 2W on a T5 model used to be, and 2 attacks + 3 attacks isn't nearly as good as 4 attacks used to be. (Because those four attacks could all be used with a Thunder Hammer that got S10.)

Fifty Conscripts with FRFSRF will kill two TWolves reliably, with an extra wound to spare.

Thunderwolf Cavalry are reasonably durable units that get a lot of attacks capable of killing lightly armored, T4 enemies. They are not a revival of cheesy 7th Edition deathstars, not even close - They got a massive nerf from 7th edition, in addition to losing about 95% of their available buffs.

Instead of 1 army, here are what i feel are the "best" for each Faction/Type.

SM is White Scares.
Other SM armies would be Space Wolves
Xenos for sure Harlequins
Horde Style Xenos would be Orks for sure over nids, tho Nids can have better melee units and a few key units make it into melee, as a army as a whole Orks does it better
For CSM... IDK i honestly havent looks at them for Daemons much, But Heldrakes and Berserkers in Landraiders/Rhino Rush would be easy to do along side with Daemonettes

Edit: Spelling etc...

Daemonettes are awful in melee, Khorne Bloodletters are better, because they swarm easier, get the bonus on less than a full unit (where damonettes lose that bonus the MOMENT they lose someone) and the fact tbey have power swords means they can cut through anything without invuln like butter.

Wulfen / Khorne Berserkers currently come to mind as the king of the ring right now.

 Elbows wrote:
Well, you'll have to look at "getting across the board" first. Do you like the idea of transports? Deep-striking, jump packs, or fast vicious beasties?

Generally speaking it does appear that assault-based armies are getting sucker punched quite a bit...so perhaps not a great route to go at the moment.

I am open to all of these. Whatever it takes and the most effective tools. The one I would actually shy away from are transports only because they take up points and I want to spend those points on fighty units. Obviously, this list would not have to be optimized. Just trying to get in and mash face would be fun for me.

If youre afraid of tieing up points in transport, Rhinos in 8e are far better at dealing out damage than they used to be. Are they as good as a Razorback? Hell no. But attaching havoc missles and combi flamers on a couple Rhinos can quickly give you a way to soften the enemy before disembarking, and it keeps those rhinoes useful after too.

 vaklor4 wrote:
If youre afraid of tieing up points in transport, Rhinos in 8e are far better at dealing out damage than they used to be. Are they as good as a Razorback? Hell no. But attaching havoc missles and combi flamers on a couple Rhinos can quickly give you a way to soften the enemy before disembarking, and it keeps those rhinoes useful after too.

This. Also, thanks to vehicle assaulting (Not sure if they could do this in 7e) , the Rhinos are awesome for soaking up overwatch against units that have 10+ shots, keeping your 1 wound face crusher units alive. Unless they have the "Fly" keyword, they can't retreat, then shoot.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I might hazard a guess at space wolves? Thunderwolves are pretty tough and hard-hitting (but expensive) melee units.

Grey knights are quite durable too, and their whole army deep strikes, so your opponent generally has one turn to shoot them before melee.

Blood angels love their jetpacks and dreads.

Orks certainly aren't a durable melee army, but tend to have a lot of infantry, if nothing else.

Of course, with 8th giving everything a massive up-gunning and basically removing cover mechanics from the game for orks, hordes are less of an attractive option.

Yes... with all the new codex stuff, every single faction is better at everything Orks can do and for cheaper points!

Waaaghpower wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Thunderwolf cavalry are 50pts with a storm shield.

Nooooo they are not. They are 60pts. Thunderwolf Cavalry Storm Shields cost 15pts.

Thunderwolf cavalry are keeping the deathstar alive.

No they are not. T5 isn't nearly as good as it used to be, 3W on a T5 model isn't nearly as good as 2W on a T5 model used to be, and 2 attacks + 3 attacks isn't nearly as good as 4 attacks used to be. (Because those four attacks could all be used with a Thunder Hammer that got S10.)

Fifty Conscripts with FRFSRF will kill two TWolves reliably, with an extra wound to spare.

Thunderwolf Cavalry are reasonably durable units that get a lot of attacks capable of killing lightly armored, T4 enemies. They are not a revival of cheesy 7th Edition deathstars, not even close - They got a massive nerf from 7th edition, in addition to losing about 95% of their available buffs.

I edited the post straight away as soon as I saw id tapped a 5 rather than a 6. No idea how you caught it 10minutes after my edit.
Thunderwolf cavalry deathstars are not about arming the thunderwolves but about using storm shield thunderwolves to protect multiple thunderwolf characters such as a wolf guard battle leader, Iron priests and/or a biker chaplain, they are the ones that do the serious damage.
In what world is a Guard player going to get 50 conscripts in rapid fire range of 10" movement thunderwolves? Even if they charge a unit next to the conscripts, all the SW player has to do is detach a single character to hold them up and prevent them FRFSRF next turn (as they will have to use a different order to retreat and fire again anyway).

Poly Ranger wrote:

I edited the post straight away as soon as I saw id tapped a 5 rather than a 6. No idea how you caught it 10minutes after my edit.

I probably hit 'Quote' and started typing my reply before you got a chance to edit.

Thunderwolf cavalry deathstars are not about arming the thunderwolves but about using storm shield thunderwolves to protect multiple thunderwolf characters such as a wolf guard battle leader, Iron priests and/or a biker chaplain, they are the ones that do the serious damage.

If that's all you want them for, just take Wolf Guard on Bikes. Compare 180pts of Twolves to 215pts of Wolf Guard:
The Twolves get no ranged attacks, 10 S4 attacks and 9 S5 AP-1 attacks in melee.
The Wolf Guard get 40 S4 attacks at range (Twin Boltgun+Storm Bolter) and 12 S4 attacks in melee.
The Twolves can take 9 D1 hits, 6 D2 hits, or 3 D3+ hits.
The Wolf Guard can take 10 D1 hits, 5 D2 hits, or 5 D3+ hits.
Bikes get 4" extra movement, and get an automatic 6" advance.
Bikes can also swap out their weapons for a wide variety of ranged AND Melee choices, if they so choose.

(If we add in Company Veterans from SM, they do everything Wolf Guard can do, plus they get an actual Bodyguard ability to protect characters from Snipers and get whatever Chapter Tactics buff they want, on top of a smaller minimum squad size if you only want a couple bodyguards.)

Twolves are an inferior choice.

In what world is a Guard player going to get 50 conscripts in rapid fire range of 10" movement thunderwolves? Even if they charge a unit next to the conscripts, all the SW player has to do is detach a single character to hold them up and prevent them FRFSRF next turn (as they will have to use a different order to retreat and fire again anyway).

In a world where he brings more than one unit of Conscripts, and uses those conscripts to screen off his entire army. You charge his first screen because it's all Twolves can do, since they have no ranged weapons. The conscripts fall back, and then the second screen unit shoots you.

DG and SW would be my suggestions. DG are crazy resilient, but they have a lot of auras and shenanigans to keep track of. Plus they are slow, so transports/deep strike is needed.

SW are fast with Wulfen and TWC. TWC can be really durable and put the hurt on. They can also bring pods and terminators if you want.

DG are almost certainly the most durable overall, but as gwarsh41 said, you have to worry about getting them to their target. You need either a large screening unit of Poxwalkers and a Noxious Blightbringer or transports because it will take them several turns to cross the board otherwise.

In my experience, DG is good at dealing with larger threats and sustaining, while WE are better at dealing with spam units. The difference being higher defense and mortal wound output, while the WE just lobs dice.

Rajah wrote:
I really like assault in 8th edition 40k. I want to start an army that is fun in melee but is tough enough not to get blown off the table before getting across the board. I know Death Guard is probably the go to army for this, but what are other armies I could run that are similar? I don't want to be the millionth person to hop on the DG bandwagon.

Alpha legion/ Ravenguard outa be able to do this...

Waaaghpower wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:

I edited the post straight away as soon as I saw id tapped a 5 rather than a 6. No idea how you caught it 10minutes after my edit.

I probably hit 'Quote' and started typing my reply before you got a chance to edit.

Thunderwolf cavalry deathstars are not about arming the thunderwolves but about using storm shield thunderwolves to protect multiple thunderwolf characters such as a wolf guard battle leader, Iron priests and/or a biker chaplain, they are the ones that do the serious damage.

If that's all you want them for, just take Wolf Guard on Bikes. Compare 180pts of Twolves to 215pts of Wolf Guard:
The Twolves get no ranged attacks, 10 S4 attacks and 9 S5 AP-1 attacks in melee.
The Wolf Guard get 40 S4 attacks at range (Twin Boltgun+Storm Bolter) and 12 S4 attacks in melee.
The Twolves can take 9 D1 hits, 6 D2 hits, or 3 D3+ hits.
The Wolf Guard can take 10 D1 hits, 5 D2 hits, or 5 D3+ hits.
Bikes get 4" extra movement, and get an automatic 6" advance.
Bikes can also swap out their weapons for a wide variety of ranged AND Melee choices, if they so choose.

(If we add in Company Veterans from SM, they do everything Wolf Guard can do, plus they get an actual Bodyguard ability to protect characters from Snipers and get whatever Chapter Tactics buff they want, on top of a smaller minimum squad size if you only want a couple bodyguards.)

Twolves are an inferior choice.

In what world is a Guard player going to get 50 conscripts in rapid fire range of 10" movement thunderwolves? Even if they charge a unit next to the conscripts, all the SW player has to do is detach a single character to hold them up and prevent them FRFSRF next turn (as they will have to use a different order to retreat and fire again anyway).

In a world where he brings more than one unit of Conscripts, and uses those conscripts to screen off his entire army. You charge his first screen because it's all Twolves can do, since they have no ranged weapons. The conscripts fall back, and then the second screen unit shoots you.

Fair points. I've just been messing around list building and seen that the best (albeit slow) bodyguard to create a star is instead the 145pt shield/axe dreads. T7 W8 3+/3++/6+++ is even better (significantly) than Mortarions durability point for point. 3 of these with a Wolf Guard Battle leader and Iron Priest (Both on thunderwolves) should make a nasty star.

Poly Ranger wrote:

Fair points. I've just been messing around list building and seen that the best (albeit slow) bodyguard to create a star is instead the 145pt shield/axe dreads. T7 W8 3+/3++/6+++ is even better (significantly) than Mortarions durability point for point. 3 of these with a Wolf Guard Battle leader and Iron Priest (Both on thunderwolves) should make a nasty star.

That's true. It's expensive and the damage output isn't going to be enough if you hit any hordes, but if the point is durability, you could do a lot worse. (Though watch out for Mortal Wound spam, which will rip you to shreds pretty quickly.)

I usually play both TWC and wolf guard bikers, they're very different units. The TWC are a pure close combat unit and in that purpose they're way better than the bikers since they have 3+3 attacks, half of them at S5 AP-1 and one more wound. The bikes in close combat are not that great, in fact I usually equip them with nothing but stormbolters and storm shields. Bikers are a great anti infantry shooty unit, TWC are a close combat oriented anti infantry unit.

I've never considered TWC and bikers as units that compete for the same role, I usually take them both, along with characters, razorbacks and longs fangs, eventually a storm wolf.

If you give plasmas or melee weapons to bikers they become terribly expensive and they don't perform particularly well for their points. And I think space wolves need at least an hard hitting melee unit, and if you don't want wulfen the TWC are still the best option with terminators.

A contemptor dreadnought is only 165 pts. Can move 9", has T7 and W10. It has 4 CC attacks hitting on 2+, its CC weapon is S14, AP-3, D3. And ranged attack with an assault cannon, hitting on 2+. Thunderwolf cavalry can move 10", they need thunderhammers to get to S8 AP-3 D3, they will only hit on 4+, reducing their possible hits to 3-4. They only have T5 and W9. No ranged attacks, and they cost 195 pts.