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Make it out of cereal boxes, make it out of rocks from your backyard, whatever you do, make sure it's enough to hide squads of models from gunlines across the board.

I just watched Astra Militarum table Death Guard horribly. 120 Conscript lasgun shots demolished a Land Raider. AM barely moved an inch.

Want to stop Astra Militarum, Ultramarines, and Tau gunlines from dominating? Get Line of Sight Blocking Terrain. If your opponent doesn't want to use it, it's likely they want to sit back and shoot you to death all game. Make them use it!

Yup. It's always been important.
Lots of balance issues and metas can be fixed with the correct terrain.
It doesn't have to be fancy or expensive but all clubs/tournaments should invest.

Sadly with 8th it has to be TRUE LOS blocking. No windows, no holes or gaps.

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:
Sadly with 8th it has to be TRUE LOS blocking. No windows, no holes or gaps.

And lots of places love using GW terrain, that has a lot of both. Close up the gaps and holes, make it look like wooden boards, or just put a piece of paper in there to block LOS. It's so important I can't stress it enough.

I remember getting fed-up of "Vaseline-shots" through terrain windows and such so I made basically a factory building that amounts to a one foot cube.
Looks like an armored building shuttered up against all comers.
Never regretted the thing and detailed the heck out of it.
I think that is a good start, any other thoughts on blockers?

I bought 2 of these and bashed them together. Makes for a good centre point that blocks quite a bit of LOS. allows infantry to climb a level as well to get a good vantage point.

Terrain is the single most impactful element to warhammer meta.

And more realistic cover and terrain rules.
We have a long thread and a long poll listing every suggested terrain and cover rule fix for eighth edition here
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733033.page
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/734650.page

Why not give invulnerable saves for standing behind walls with window openings and restrict casualties to those models visible though said windows or some other more realistic rules?
Why do I need to put cereal boxes across my table to make up for cartoon rules?
Gw should release more advanced cover and terrain rules and if they don't then it simply confirms for me that it is time to stop relying on gw to write rules.
Basically I feel that we need to treat gw rules as I treat their models, something to cut up and modify to make better.

You can also just talk with your opponent and agree that seeing through a "window" on the building doesn't count for Los / the entire building blocks Los. My favorite piece of terrain is an old broken down building rubble with 3 levels, used to be a part of an imperial court house / building. It's large but has the gw "windows" issue so we just agree that it it can be seen only through a window / Crack in the building it doesn't count. It has made our games with it significantly better /more fun.

Heck our main Center piece we normally use is a large piece of terrain, from an old fish aquarium set, that is about 15" long and 10" tall, surrounded by normal size trees it makes a great Los blocking tool that looks cool. And I normally play the more dakka army. But it's FUN to have to work with the terrain and try and move your units to get better Los while also having to take into account not to get too close or they can pop around the corner and hit my fire squad. It's no fun to just sit back and shoot, at least not for me.

 jeff white wrote:


Why not give invulnerable saves for standing behind walls with window openings and restrict casualties to those models visible though said windows or some other more realistic rules?

so basically 7th? Not for me thanks, stuff like this contributed to bloating the game and slowing it down massively, I agree on one hand that cover saves should be more beneficial but god no, please don't bring back "only models seen can be killed"

could cover use a bit of revision in CA? yeah for sure, but let's not superman our way back to the horrors of 7th

 jeff white wrote:
Basically I feel that we need to treat gw rules as I treat their models, something to cut up and modify to make better

That's what house rules are for so you can do exactly that.

Way too many of the battle reports I see they just sit n their deployment zones and shoot at other. More terrain guys! This is supposed to,be mobile warfare! And use objectives!

Better terrain rules would help too though.

drbored wrote:

I just watched Astra Militarum table Death Guard horribly. 120 Conscript lasgun shots demolished a Land Raider. AM barely moved an inch.

Not against terrain or anything, but that seems like a major anomaly.

Otherwise yes. LOS blockers and objectives are always good for your games.

It happens more often than you think. Games played like Colonial times where gun lines form lines in front of each other - of course certain armies will have an advantage when there's 2 pieces of terrain on the table.

 Talizvar wrote:
I remember getting fed-up of "Vaseline-shots" through terrain windows and such so I made basically a factory building that amounts to a one foot cube.
Looks like an armored building shuttered up against all comers.
Never regretted the thing and detailed the heck out of it.
I think that is a good start, any other thoughts on blockers?

2 of 3 of these clumped together. Easily painted to be "industrial silos." Even better are the big institutional sizes for schools/prisons etc. which are something like 6-8" diameter.

120 lasguns shot killed a land raider? That's madness.

iirc that should statistically do 6-7 wounds which are then saved on a 2+. So it comes out to about a single wound... statistically.

If it manages to do 16 wounds... that is.... holy hell, they overperformed.

 Purifier wrote:
iirc that should statistically do 6-7 wounds which are then saved on a 2+. So it comes out to about a single wound... statistically.

If it manages to do 16 wounds... that is.... holy hell, they overperformed.

Right. Even rerolling 1s gets little better, 60 hits, 10 wounds, 2 failed saves.

I mean, yeah lasguns hurting land raiders is a bit anti fluff, but that's the whole intent f 8 edition, epanything can hurt anything.

And it works both ways. Bolter can strip wounds off baneblades.

How much los blocking terrain do you need on a table these days? I worry i may make a labrynth of victory for my assault army by accident without proper guidance.

Having done a reasonable amount of research, I've recently purchased two pieces of premade scenery from a (UK based) eBay seller called 2009braggminiatures.

My criteria for buying new terrain was:
- Must block LOS completely
- Must be on a base to provide area terrain effect
- Must look great
- Colour scheme must not clash with my gaming mat (brown "Fallout Zone")

You can hide entire vehicles behind it, stand dudes on the wall in front of it... even put models on the sub-platform so they start out of LOS but can move forward to the wall on their turn.

They are just perfect and it is going to be difficult not to buy more from them over time.

Pic of one:


In fact I will link the seller up because I think they are so good and would recommend them without reservation...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/2009braggminiatures/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Apologies if this looks like shilling but they are not me! I just think they are really well designed for 8th.

Also Bastions; since PUGs aren't always going to have terrain to hand, bring your own as part of your army list.

In my opinion, "requiring" custom terrain is bad, and should not be assumed as the bsaeline. The baseline should be GW kits only on GW boards (because this is what GW themselves use, to my knowledge). Not saying more terrain isn't good, but I see far too much people talk about "LOS Blocking Terrain" and it's all homebrew terrain. I know that's how things used to be (I played back in the days of "How to make wargames terrain"), but nowadays GW's assumption is that you're using their plastic kits on their realm of battle boards, and those terrain pieces usually do NOT have a lot in the way of LOS blocking (which is also why I think True LOS is a terrible concept for Warhammer)

We got a similar set of somewhat cheaper MDF terrain from a company called "Deathray Designs". They have bundle packs of their large bunker style buildings, which come at a base discount. If you're associated with a club and looking to make a large purchase, you should definitely reach out to them and tell them what store you're associated with - they like having their stuff out and on display at FLGS's. We dropped a couple hundred dollars and got enough solid, LOS blocking buildings to fill a good few tables.

 Silentz wrote:
Having done a reasonable amount of research, I've recently purchased two pieces of premade scenery from a (UK based) eBay seller called 2009braggminiatures.

My criteria for buying new terrain was:
- Must block LOS completely
- Must be on a base to provide area terrain effect
- Must look great
- Colour scheme must not clash with my gaming mat (brown "Fallout Zone")

You can hide entire vehicles behind it, stand dudes on the wall in front of it... even put models on the sub-platform so they start out of LOS but can move forward to the wall on their turn.

They are just perfect and it is going to be difficult not to buy more from them over time.

Pic of one:

Spoiler:

In fact I will link the seller up because I think they are so good and would recommend them without reservation...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/2009braggminiatures/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Apologies if this looks like shilling but they are not me! I just think they are really well designed for 8th.

Looks like it's built using modular Mantic plastic scenery, which I can recommend. It's obviously aimed at 40k players among others and can provide large LOS blockers.

And it comes in different styles (brick, urban as above, industrial) so it's easy to fit in. I wish GW had done more modular terrain like the Cities of Death kits. Hopefully we'll see more of that in the style of the Moon Base Klaisus ruins, but who knows. 40k could definitely use more real LOS blockers and fewer industrial walkways, nice as they are on their own.

Wayniac wrote:
In my opinion, "requiring" custom terrain is bad, and should not be assumed as the bsaeline. The baseline should be GW kits only on GW boards (because this is what GW themselves use, to my knowledge). Not saying more terrain isn't good, but I see far too much people talk about "LOS Blocking Terrain" and it's all homebrew terrain. I know that's how things used to be (I played back in the days of "How to make wargames terrain"), but nowadays GW's assumption is that you're using their plastic kits on their realm of battle boards, and those terrain pieces usually do NOT have a lot in the way of LOS blocking (which is also why I think True LOS is a terrible concept for Warhammer)

I'd certainly agree that because of GW's range of terrain we have an indication what the baseline used to design the game is, but I think it's unrealistic to campaign for GW style terrain because, frankly, 8th ed terrain rules are a catastrophe. Good tabletop rules need varied and meaningful integration of terrain. In my 8th ed and Age of Sigmar games, terrain made precious little difference and was essentially there to look good rather than provide tactical options or challenges. Honestly I don't know why the current designers marginalize terrain so much.

One other point, while I tend to agree as said above, we do have another option: WD was full of grand scenery built by their scenery team for battle reports and I like to think that the designers test stuff on these tables as well. The terrain team sits at the source, unlike us, and can basically have as many of any plastic part as they want. So they can built LOS blockers without a second thought that you or me would have to drop 500 bucks on, which is just not realistic outside of true terrain lovers. So there is a reason to cast doubt on the assumption that because GW markets a terrain range, the design team is as limited as that would suggest.

 Talizvar wrote:
I remember getting fed-up of "Vaseline-shots" through terrain windows and such so I made basically a factory building that amounts to a one foot cube.
Looks like an armored building shuttered up against all comers.
Never regretted the thing and detailed the heck out of it.
I think that is a good start, any other thoughts on blockers?

We have a building at our LGS that is basically what you have made, a bit taller. Plop it right in the middle of the battlefield and it adds a lot of strategy. I was able to hide a unit of 7 plague drones behind that thing. My opponents firebase couldn't see them and he was saaaaalty. It's not his fault that he deployed a firebase in a corner, it's the terrains fault that let me win...

 Geifer wrote:


I'd certainly agree that because of GW's range of terrain we have an indication what the baseline used to design the game is, but I think it's unrealistic to campaign for GW style terrain because, frankly, 8th ed terrain rules are a catastrophe. Good tabletop rules need varied and meaningful integration of terrain. In my 8th ed and Age of Sigmar games, terrain made precious little difference and was essentially there to look good rather than provide tactical options or challenges. Honestly I don't know why the current designers marginalize terrain so much.

One other point, while I tend to agree as said above, we do have another option: WD was full of grand scenery built by their scenery team for battle reports and I like to think that the designers test stuff on these tables as well. The terrain team sits at the source, unlike us, and can basically have as many of any plastic part as they want. So they can built LOS blockers without a second thought that you or me would have to drop 500 bucks on, which is just not realistic outside of true terrain lovers. So there is a reason to cast doubt on the assumption that because GW markets a terrain range, the design team is as limited as that would suggest.

Troof!

The wonderful ITC ruling of all first floor windows not counting for LOS is a great way to balance games (As an AM/IG player who also plays Tau, I fully support the more LOS blocking terrain idea).

I am amused that Tallarn Russes can now pretend they're Crisis Suits or chunky Eldar Jetbikes, while Eldar and Tau no longer get to move-shoot-move. Because balance.

The smallest fiddle in the world is playing for Tau and Eldar. They both deserve a turn being below grots.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I am amused that Tallarn Russes can now pretend they're Crisis Suits or chunky Eldar Jetbikes, while Eldar and Tau no longer get to move-shoot-move. Because balance.

Tau and Eldar don't have their codexes yet. Based on past GW history, future codexes will make this one look like its throwing nerf balls.

The new terrain kit looks pretty good. Ground floor is LOS blocking. I hope we get a few kits at my shop.