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If a character with more than one weapon, such as Belisarius Cawl attacks in melee, let's say he starts with his normal attacks on his axe. With these attacks he kills a model in the unit he is fighting. As it turns out, the remaining model is now outside of 1". He wants to hit with his mechandrite hive too, but can he, as he is now not in that combat anymore? If his axe had done more wounds, it could have killed both of the models, but since this is a new weapon, I read it as he is now not in range anymore?

 Purifier wrote:
If a character with more than one weapon, such as Belisarius Cawl attacks in melee, let's say he starts with his normal attacks on his axe. With these attacks he kills a model in the unit he is fighting. As it turns out, the remaining model is now outside of 1". He wants to hit with his mechandrite hive too, but can he, as he is now not in that combat anymore? If his axe had done more wounds, it could have killed both of the models, but since this is a new weapon, I read it as he is now not in range anymore?

Incorrect. You choose targets at step 5.3, then pick your weapons and how they are split at 5.4 then make your attacks at 5.5. You pick all your attacks first, then make your attacks all at once. Basically, if a model is able to attack a unit at step 5.3, you get to bash their face in regardless of casualties.

What CAN happen is that you kill so many enemies with Unit A, that Unit B no longer is able to get into range of Krumpin', so Unit B doesn't get to attack.

I can't roll mechandrite and axe together though, as they're very different attacks, and rules for targeting says it's just like in shooting, and in shooting you shoot different weapons separately, and if the first weapon kills enough that the second can't reach, then the second can't shoot anymore.

 Purifier wrote:
I can't roll mechandrite and axe together though, as they're very different attacks, and rules for targeting says it's just like in shooting, and in shooting you shoot different weapons separately, and if the first weapon kills enough that the second can't reach, then the second can't shoot anymore.

I don't know where you got that idea because that is totally untrue, at least if both weapons are from the same unit.

Same situation, you determine range and attacks before making any attacks, then all attacks get resolved, even if the enemy takes casualties to drop out of range. You can never under any circumstances kill enemies with half your weapons and find yourself out of range with the rest in the same unit.

Example: Unit of 10 marines, 9 bolters and 1 lascannon are shooting at grots. 1 grot is 23" away and the rest are 25" away. You shoot at the grots with everything because you're all in range. You resolve the lascannon first and it kills the 23" away grot. The other 9 bolters still get to fire because range isn't checked again mid shooting, it's only ever checked once.

 Purifier wrote:
I can't roll mechandrite and axe together though, as they're very different attacks, and rules for targeting says it's just like in shooting, and in shooting you shoot different weapons separately, and if the first weapon kills enough that the second can't reach, then the second can't shoot anymore.

Lets pretend you have 4 attacks and you do 2 with weapon A and 2 with weapon B.

You announce which attacks are targetting which units.

At this point, even if you roll the dice pools separately you are past the point of checking for range/valid targets. Those attacks are happening.

 Purifier wrote:
and rules for targeting says it's just like in shooting

...no it doesn't. I even had to go and check to make sure I wasn't going crazy, because that sounded so incorrect. The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. The spell out exactly how target selection happens in the fight phase

and in shooting you shoot different weapons separately, and if the first weapon kills enough that the second can't reach, then the second can't shoot anymore.

You roll for all your different weapons separately. But the rules explictly tell you to declare all of your targets, and what weapons you are using, before any dice are rolled. That is when you check for range.

Just re-read page 179. There's a big red box showing the order of operations for the shooting phase. Then skip to page 182, there's another red box showing the order of operations in the fight phase.

both tell you to pick all targets for an acting unit first (which includes the check for whether or not it is a valid target) , then assign weapons to the targets and only then iterate through each weapon+target combination.

Now if you have multiple units attacking one larger enemy units, your opponent could kill the models nearest to your unit B when you deal wounds with unit A, leaving your unit A outside of 1'' of his unit and effectively removing that unit from combat (unless unit A charged in this turn).

AnFéasógMór wrote:
...no it doesn't. I even had to go and check to make sure I wasn't going crazy, because that sounded so incorrect. The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. The spell out exactly how target selection happens in the fight phase

From the rulebook:

5. Resolve Close Combat Attacks
[...] The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks, except you use the model's Weapon Skill [...]

That said, I am absolutely convinced you're all right. Would have helped me actually be able to use my mechandrites, too.

 Purifier wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:
...no it doesn't. I even had to go and check to make sure I wasn't going crazy, because that sounded so incorrect. The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. The spell out exactly how target selection happens in the fight phase

From the rulebook:

5. Resolve Close Combat Attacks
[...] The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks, except you use the model's Weapon Skill [...]

That said, I am absolutely convinced you're all right. Would have helped me actually be able to use my mechandrites, too.

He's not saying that was the incorrect point. He was saying the whole dropping out of range portion is incorrect.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:
...no it doesn't. I even had to go and check to make sure I wasn't going crazy, because that sounded so incorrect. The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. The spell out exactly how target selection happens in the fight phase

From the rulebook:

5. Resolve Close Combat Attacks
[...] The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks, except you use the model's Weapon Skill [...]

That said, I am absolutely convinced you're all right. Would have helped me actually be able to use my mechandrites, too.

He's not saying that was the incorrect point. He was saying the whole dropping out of range portion is incorrect.

Did you read what he said at all? "The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. "
So I gave him the section where they did.

 Purifier wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:
...no it doesn't. I even had to go and check to make sure I wasn't going crazy, because that sounded so incorrect. The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. The spell out exactly how target selection happens in the fight phase

From the rulebook:

5. Resolve Close Combat Attacks
[...] The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks, except you use the model's Weapon Skill [...]

That said, I am absolutely convinced you're all right. Would have helped me actually be able to use my mechandrites, too.

He's not saying that was the incorrect point. He was saying the whole dropping out of range portion is incorrect.

Did you read what he said at all? "The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. "
So I gave him the section where they did.

Bit misleading the melee rules only tell you how to *resolve the attack* (check if hits, wounds and saves are performed equally as with shooting attacks ) but you already weaved tru 4 previous steps who are different.

1:choose unit
2: pile in
3: Choose targets
4: choose melee weapons
5: resolve Close combat Attacks.

When 5 hits you already have wich units are attacking , against whom and how many attacks are to be resolved in step 5

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Did you read what he said at all? "The rules for the fight phase don't reference shooting at all. "
So I gave him the section where they did.

Bit misleading the melee rules only tell you how to *resolve the attack* (...)

 BaconCatBug wrote:
He's not saying that was the incorrect point. He was saying the whole dropping out of range portion is incorrect.

 Purifier wrote:

That said, I am absolutely convinced you're all right.

Purifier doesn't disagree with how the Fight phase works anymore. He said so. He also said that the statement that the Fight phase would not reference the shooting phase at all was wrong, and proved it. Two different issues, both are resolved I'd say.