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So. Kevin Rountree is CEO of GW. He has been for a few years now, and he's brought a few changes.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Kevin_Rountree

Among them was, and I paraphrase this quote from a GW guy, "taking a Commissar pistol to the rumors and leaks." Between possible Canary Traps and other tactics, he managed to discover where the leaks were coming from and put an end to them, threatening to stop business with certain Spanish and German chains if they didn't shut their yaps about future releases. The leash was tightened. GW managers are brought in to learn about new products coming out only a month or two in advance and are given a very strict dialogue that they can share up until the official word from GW corporate comes out. Examples include Shadespire, the Citadel Paint App, and other things that were coming down the line that GW managers were briefed on ahead of time.

On top of this, GW launched its Warhammer Community site, an attempt to wrangle the negative aspects of the 40k and AoS community and get people to look at official sources for news, instead of sites such as BoLS, Natfka, and all the forums out there where arguments and griping run rampant thanks to our legion of keyboard warriors that spout whatever nonsense they think is relevant to the conversation. Relax. I'm one of those guys too.

With the advent of GW's on Rumor Engine, they tease tiny pieces of future kits, showing off little bits of them to entice the community to speculate.

As a result of all of this effort, we've seen rumors... die off. The old Rumor Elite don't post as often. Maybe they still know plenty about the future of GW and have been sworn to secrecy, or maybe their contacts aren't as forthcoming any more. Maybe they're just not interested in rumor mongering any more, and that's totally fine too. However, the effect is pretty clear. There aren't big rumor topics on the forums any more. On Dakka, Warseer, Bolter and Chainsword, all of the 'News and Rumor' sections of the forums are just... News. Things we know, thanks to direct GW updates.

Remember when those pictures of Mortarion were leaked almost a year ago? http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/01/is-this-new-mortarion-model.html - Things like this aren't happening any more. We used to get little snippets of brave leakers for all sorts of model kits. Now? Nothing.

Now, the only rumor that we have going into 2018 is a half-baked Sisters of Battle rumor. You know, one of those one's where it's "my FLGS GW manager told me..." which have about as good a reliability of being true as rolling a 1 on a d20.

The age of rumors is over and into 2018 we have no idea what's coming.

Input? Thoughts? How does this make you feel? Discuss.

Well, for a long time now they've been trying to crack down on rumours. It's only really in the age of kevin that they've been relatively successful, although there are still exceptions (like lady atia).

The question is, is it the right approach in general? Most companies want to hype their consumer base on upcoming releases. GW wants their consumers kept in the dark. I can't really say which is the better alternative from a business standpoint, but as a potential customer? I don't like it. I'd rather see something good on the horizon and get excited for it, rather than be kept in the dark and supposed to get excited as it happens.

My contention with gw is that when i could see what was on the horizon, i didn't think it was good and therefore didn't get excited about it. It reminds me of movies/games where they know it's bad, so they try hard to quash reviews until it's released for sale. That might work for them as a company, but it's more of a "gotcha! screw you!" to the customers who are likely to remember that in future.

As for the half-baked sisters rumour, there's always a half-baked sisters rumour.

I don't get why they're not teasing more about future releases. Some people need to save money for the more expensive models, and knowing they're coming could mean they're buying them when they come out, instead of putting it off until later.

I get that you don't want rumours too long before release though, as it's hard to care about what's in the far future, but a few months doesn't seem unreasonable.

 Cream Tea wrote:
I don't get why they're not teasing more about future releases. Some people need to save money for the more expensive models, and knowing they're coming could mean they're buying them when they come out, instead of putting it off until later.

I get that you don't want rumours too long before release though, as it's hard to care about what's in the far future, but a few months doesn't seem unreasonable.

The last time i heard it mentioned, their marketing strategy was on having timmy + mom walk into the store and drop several hundred pounds (or regional equivalent) on whatever they had available at the time - and then never coming back again. This may have changed, but if so i'm not aware of it. I'd like to think that they're more long-term focused than that now, but, well.......

There is no point for Leaks right now, we know all the codex's are coming out, they told us 8 will be out in 6 months, we are told faqs and chapter tactics are coming out for all armies, we are told Chapter Approve is coming out.

We just dont know about new models and at this point its most likely very few and far between.

So why do we need rumors and leaks? They are literally telling us more than what leaks do. Yeah leaks will say "XYZ codex or units" but we are getting insane info atm.


Edit: Spelling

Well. Primaris Marines and Mortarion were leaked nearly 1 year in advance. So, sometimes we still receive leaks and rumours. And I don't know if calling Lady Atia rumour monger is good anymore. She don't say rumours, she give us small bits of information that GW allows her to tell us. Those aren't rumours, are more similar with the small images Warhammer Community post.

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
I don't get why they're not teasing more about future releases. Some people need to save money for the more expensive models, and knowing they're coming could mean they're buying them when they come out, instead of putting it off until later.

I get that you don't want rumours too long before release though, as it's hard to care about what's in the far future, but a few months doesn't seem unreasonable.

The last time i heard it mentioned, their marketing strategy was on having timmy + mom walk into the store and drop several hundred pounds (or regional equivalent) on whatever they had available at the time - and then never coming back again. This may have changed, but if so i'm not aware of it. I'd like to think that they're more long-term focused than that now, but, well.......

What is this non sense? They officially confirmed Death Guard something like 8-9 months before the first kit for them reached the shelves. They did the same with Shadespire, and Necromunda. They have been informing us, with months in advance, from their new products. This is not the old GW, at least not in relation to the information they give us about their future releases.

Well guys, let me explain something important about GW.

For many of their kits, they are replacing old ones. They're introducing new ones all the time (Primaris and Death Guard are perfect examples of this), but for those that they replace, they want to maximize the opportunity for people to buy them.

In other words, let's say you're a Death Guard player. If you know, for certain, that GW is going to come out with a new Death Guard Codex and all these brand new models in a year, you're much less likely to buy the current models. You'll focus on the models that you have and wait for the new ones.

By keeping you in the dark, you're more likely to add a few more Death Guard models to your army before they are updated. The reason for this is that once an old model is updated, they pretty much have to scrap all of the old inventory. Nobody will buy it straight from GW. The material is melted and the cardboard recycled, which is all written off as a loss.

They are looking to minimize that loss.

The other reason they keep us in the dark is to give 3rd party companies as little opportunity to tread on their trademark as possible. If a 3rd party modeler knows a year in advance that GW is going to make something, they'll get right to work making it first. We even saw this happen for the Plagueburst Crawler! http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/10/prusack-scourge-mortar-is-firing-away.html

By keeping us in the dark, 3rd party companies can't come out with the model first, giving hobbyists a sort of 'early access' to an alternate (and sometimes cheaper) version of the same thing.

That's the why.

Well that explains why it has been so quiet. Not sure how I feel about it. Its exciting that we don't know what is coming but it also kind of kills any point in having a discussion on any future releases.

If no one knows what is coming, its pointless to even talk about. That is kind of half the fun, especially when reliable sources like Lady Atia drop a line here or there. It generates conversation. Conversation creates community. I guess we'll see if their strategy pans out. If 2018 turns out to be an absolutely insane release year for all armies it will be successful. If it ends up being like 2017, not so much. While I'm sure GW at large perceives 2017 to be a massive success and it is, lots of armies have fallen to the wayside or lack proper support. In my eyes, they simply are not releasing enough models. There should be new models coming out for every army, every year. Not kidding. There is nothing more devastating than having your codex updated & getting a whopping 0 new models for your army & knowing your next update won't be for 2-3 more years.

 Galas wrote:
Well. Primaris Marines and Mortarion were leaked nearly 1 year in advance. So, sometimes we still receive leaks and rumours. And I don't know if calling Lady Atia rumour monger is good anymore. She don't say rumours, she give us small bits of information that GW allows her to tell us. Those aren't rumours, are more similar with the small images Warhammer Community post.

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
I don't get why they're not teasing more about future releases. Some people need to save money for the more expensive models, and knowing they're coming could mean they're buying them when they come out, instead of putting it off until later.

I get that you don't want rumours too long before release though, as it's hard to care about what's in the far future, but a few months doesn't seem unreasonable.

The last time i heard it mentioned, their marketing strategy was on having timmy + mom walk into the store and drop several hundred pounds (or regional equivalent) on whatever they had available at the time - and then never coming back again. This may have changed, but if so i'm not aware of it. I'd like to think that they're more long-term focused than that now, but, well.......

What is this non sense? They officially confirmed Death Guard something like 8-9 months before the first kit for them reached the shelves. They did the same with Shadespire, and Necromunda. They have been informing us, with months in advance, from their new products. This is not the old GW, at least not in relation to the information they give us about their future releases.

I'll bite. I wasn't paying attention 8-9 months ago. What exactly did they tease? Did they mention the specific units, or just the army variation (death guard)? Was it gw, or was it one of the 'leakers'? Please, inform me.

drbored wrote:
By keeping us in the dark, 3rd party companies can't come out with the model first, giving hobbyists a sort of 'early access' to an alternate (and sometimes cheaper) version of the same thing.

That's the why.

As someone who waited 18 years for GW to release new models for my army, I don't think the issue is 3rd party companies. Its GW. They are simply not releasing enough models.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

drbored wrote:
By keeping us in the dark, 3rd party companies can't come out with the model first, giving hobbyists a sort of 'early access' to an alternate (and sometimes cheaper) version of the same thing.

That's the why.

As someone who waited 18 years for GW to release new models for my army, I don't think the issue is 3rd party companies. Its GW. They are simply not releasing enough models.

They may not be releasing enough models. But the whole chapterhouse lawsuit was a significant thing. It was pretty much about that time that they started renaming units (which as i understand has no legal effect) and only releasing rules with concurrent models.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

drbored wrote:
By keeping us in the dark, 3rd party companies can't come out with the model first, giving hobbyists a sort of 'early access' to an alternate (and sometimes cheaper) version of the same thing.

That's the why.

As someone who waited 18 years for GW to release new models for my army, I don't think the issue is 3rd party companies. Its GW. They are simply not releasing enough models.

The difference is updates to old models versus release of new ones.

If the old model exists, then GW doesn't have to defend it. It already exists. If 3rd party miniature makers make something too close to it, GW can file a proper lawsuit.

Now, in terms of new models, if the model doesn't exist yet, but 3rd party miniature makers know that it's coming, they can try to swoop in and make it first. This is why we're kept in the dark, to prevent that from happening.

 Commissar Benny wrote:


As someone who waited 18 years for GW to release new models for my army, I don't think the issue is 3rd party companies. Its GW. They are simply not releasing enough models.

18 years, ha call me when you break into the quarter century Mark. Says the bitter Squat player

drbored wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

drbored wrote:
By keeping us in the dark, 3rd party companies can't come out with the model first, giving hobbyists a sort of 'early access' to an alternate (and sometimes cheaper) version of the same thing.

That's the why.

As someone who waited 18 years for GW to release new models for my army, I don't think the issue is 3rd party companies. Its GW. They are simply not releasing enough models.

The difference is updates to old models versus release of new ones.

If the old model exists, then GW doesn't have to defend it. It already exists. If 3rd party miniature makers make something too close to it, GW can file a proper lawsuit.

Now, in terms of new models, if the model doesn't exist yet, but 3rd party miniature makers know that it's coming, they can try to swoop in and make it first. This is why we're kept in the dark, to prevent that from happening.

That makes sense. So is it reasonable to assume that we might hear rumors for new models based on older releases? As you said, if older model exists they don't have to defend it. For example: Sisters of Battle, Orks, Dark Eldar all desperately need new models. What would be the harm in leaking an upcoming release for them if the new models were just updated versions of the existing models?

 Commissar Benny wrote:
For example: Sisters of Battle, Orks, Dark Eldar all desperately need new models. What would be the harm in leaking an upcoming release for them if the new models were just updated versions of the existing models?

What's wrong with the Dark Eldar models? Almost all DE models are from 2010 or later, and they look lovely. The exception is Drazhar. He's a bit ugly.

I'm a little confused as to what people actually want. GW literally told us about the upcoming release of 10 codexes! 10!! We use to be lucky if we knew which book was coming next. Nevermind knowing the lay of the land for the next few months.

We know Necromunda is coming out and have had videos on them. We know lots about what is coming up for the rest of 2018. I'm just hoping we don't know it all and there are some surprises left.

 Hollow wrote:
I'm a little confused as to what people actually want. GW literally told us about the upcoming release of 10 codexes! 10!! We use to be lucky if we knew which book was coming next. Nevermind knowing the lay of the land for the next few months.

We know Necromunda is coming out and have had videos on them. We know lots about what is coming up for the rest of 2018. I'm just hoping we don't know it all and there are some surprises left.

They just release a new edition - all of the codexes are usually subject to re-release at that point. Barring the old system where certain armies got 'left behind', it's fairly obvious that the most common/popular codexes will get a new release. Outside a limited window, though, they still haven't told us who and when.

As for necromunda, yeah they've had videos. That haven't told me jack squat about where my van-saar sit. Escher and goliaths? Great. To a certain extent (in that we've seen limited pictures). Honestly, we used to get more from the leakers.

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:
For example: Sisters of Battle, Orks, Dark Eldar all desperately need new models. What would be the harm in leaking an upcoming release for them if the new models were just updated versions of the existing models?

What's wrong with the Dark Eldar models? Almost all DE models are from 2010 or later, and they look lovely. The exception is Drazhar. He's a bit ugly.

Yes, apart from the named characters, most of the range is pretty good.

I also think GW wants to focus the news on the important stuff. They started talking about 8th ed. way in advance, and started their daily articles to get the hype on.
They also teased Shadespire months in advance. With pictures of the box and very few details. Then later on, they showed pictures of the skeleton warband, which caused quite a lot of hype. Then they sent demos to some bloggers/youtubers, so we saw unboxing/playthrough videos about a month before the release date.
So everything that GW thinks is a major release (8th ed. 40K, General handbook 2, Shadespire etc.) gets teased way in advance. Secondary stuff (like individual codex with no actual model release) are announced a bit in advance, and get a lot of focus just before the release. All the other stuff mostly flies under the radar, expect for a small peak in the rumor engine (and the rumor engine usually doesn't bring anything specific enough to know for sure what's coming).

 Torga_DW wrote:
Well, for a long time now they've been trying to crack down on rumours. It's only really in the age of kevin that they've been relatively successful, although there are still exceptions (like lady atia).

The question is, is it the right approach in general? Most companies want to hype their consumer base on upcoming releases. GW wants their consumers kept in the dark. I can't really say which is the better alternative from a business standpoint, but as a potential customer? I don't like it. I'd rather see something good on the horizon and get excited for it, rather than be kept in the dark and supposed to get excited as it happens.

My contention with gw is that when i could see what was on the horizon, i didn't think it was good and therefore didn't get excited about it. It reminds me of movies/games where they know it's bad, so they try hard to quash reviews until it's released for sale. That might work for them as a company, but it's more of a "gotcha! screw you!" to the customers who are likely to remember that in future.

As for the half-baked sisters rumour, there's always a half-baked sisters rumour.

And ultimately this is why this strategy will backfire. As the following post puts it:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Commissar Benny wrote:
Well that explains why it has been so quiet. Not sure how I feel about it. Its exciting that we don't know what is coming but it also kind of kills any point in having a discussion on any future releases.

If no one knows what is coming, its pointless to even talk about. That is kind of half the fun, especially when reliable sources like Lady Atia drop a line here or there. It generates conversation. Conversation creates community. I guess we'll see if their strategy pans out. If 2018 turns out to be an absolutely insane release year for all armies it will be successful. If it ends up being like 2017, not so much. While I'm sure GW at large perceives 2017 to be a massive success and it is, lots of armies have fallen to the wayside or lack proper support. In my eyes, they simply are not releasing enough models. There should be new models coming out for every army, every year. Not kidding. There is nothing more devastating than having your codex updated & getting a whopping 0 new models for your army & knowing your next update won't be for 2-3 more years.

 Hollow wrote:
I'm a little confused as to what people actually want. GW literally told us about the upcoming release of 10 codexes! 10!! We use to be lucky if we knew which book was coming next. Nevermind knowing the lay of the land for the next few months.

We know Necromunda is coming out and have had videos on them. We know lots about what is coming up for the rest of 2018. I'm just hoping we don't know it all and there are some surprises left.

But we only know that Craftworld Eldar and Tyranids are next, after that we know nothing of which codices are coming.

What do we know about 2018 releases except that we're getting codices (we don't know how many)?

And I frankly didn't want codices. Not so soon. They should've let the index meta settle and then use the knowledge gained from that to make better codices.

And Necromunda is some sort of board game I think, not 40k. Not relevant to 40k discussion.

 Hollow wrote:
I'm a little confused as to what people actually want.

Simply put, more models faster.
like it has been said in here allready, GW simply dont throw out actual models fast enugh. 1 or 2 units every now and then simply aint enugh to keep up whit all the backlog they have on all the armys for 40k and AoS.

They seem to fokus too mutch on making additional ways of playing the game and flooding us whit books rather then fokus on the core.

aka, what the F is the point of the index books for 40k when the codex are coming so soon?
index should have lasted 2-3 years whit montly updates to pointcost and rules, giving them penty of time to actualy playtest the armies and releasing additional units to the armys that is severly lacking them in the mean time.

 Hollow wrote:
I'm a little confused as to what people actually want.

I can't speak for anyone, but I want support for every range. Each time a codex is updated, it should include new models. Even if that means updating older models with new poses. It doesn't have to be an entirely new entry. As a consumer, I want to know the range I am investing in is expanding not declining. Take orks for example. Most of the range is pretty old. Tons of options Forgeworld use to offer are discontinued. If I were a new player with this knowledge, is this an army I want to invest in knowing that the army will likely get little support in the future & many models are OOP?

I understand GW's marketing stance. Why release new models for an army that isn't selling well? The problem with this position is that it creates a self fulfilling prophecy. If an army doesn't get support its only natural that sales for said range will decline over time. New models for all ranges generates interest from new & old customers. Take IG for example. I've seen lots of conversations on reddit/here/other forums from people interested in IG but don't like the Cadian/Catachan plastics but don't want a mono-pose pewter metal army.

drbored wrote:
..., let's say you're a Death Guard player. If you know, for certain, that GW is going to come out with a new Death Guard Codex and all these brand new models in a year, you're much less likely to buy the current models. You'll focus on the models that you have and wait for the new ones.

By keeping you in the dark, you're more likely to add a few more Death Guard models to your army before they are updated. The reason for this is that once an old model is updated, they pretty much have to scrap all of the old inventory. Nobody will buy it straight from GW. The material is melted and the cardboard recycled, which is all written off as a loss.

10/10 correct. An additional consideration is that these items are going to have a long shelf life. They'll be available for 5+ years in most cases, as the whole selection is slowly updated piecemeal. It's not like an iPhone where you need to maximise your hype to sell as many as possible at release to stave off the Samsung release that will be 3 months later.

They're already releasing a lot of models, maybe too much for the same armies(whole different discussion ,the hows and whys of that). But kits have to sell in the thousands to very limited audiences to make their money back. I know it doesn't sound like a lot but things add up quickly.

Whenever I can't make sense of what GW is doing I discuss it with my father/uncles who all hold Relatively high functions in manufacturing industry. They don't the hobby in specific so it gives a different perspective. And when I count back what they tell me (more than I can explain here sorry) GW unreasonable decisions become a lot more reasonable.

There was a long series of articles 2-3 years ago on painting buddha about business practicesin GW. It's an interesting read (a bit out of date it was before the new CEO took over).

Guess Atia saying Tau getting a release in 2018 is "nothing"?

 Gamgee wrote:
Guess Atia saying Tau getting a release in 2018 is "nothing"?

There should be about 20+ codex releases in 2018. "predicting" that Tau is one isn't exactly clairvoyance.

This is a pretty normal strategy nowadays. Look at video games. Lots of big publishers now provide very little information until just before a game releases. Nintendo's been especially aggressive about this; sometimes they don't even announce a game until a few months before it comes out.

The big advantage of doing this is that you're not distracting from the stuff that you're releasing right now, and you can have more exciting announcements for people closer to the time when you actually want that excitement to translate into purchases.

Like, when GW is releasing Death Guard stuff they really want you to be talking about Death Guard stuff, not ignoring Death Guard and speculating about rumors of plastic Sisters coming out six months from now. And if they do release plastic Sisters they want to be able to have a big announcement that instantly generates a lot of excitement in the weeks before they come out, rather than "hey we're releasing plastic Sisters" -> "whatever, we've known about that for months".

It's true that you want to do something to engage with your most obsessive fans, but this is the point of the rumor engine or whatever it's called. It's little tidbits that are basically useless for figuring out what's coming but it's a nice drip feed of vague "news" for people who are into that.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

drbored wrote:
By keeping us in the dark, 3rd party companies can't come out with the model first, giving hobbyists a sort of 'early access' to an alternate (and sometimes cheaper) version of the same thing.

That's the why.

As someone who waited 18 years for GW to release new models for my army, I don't think the issue is 3rd party companies. Its GW. They are simply not releasing enough models.

The difference is updates to old models versus release of new ones.

If the old model exists, then GW doesn't have to defend it. It already exists. If 3rd party miniature makers make something too close to it, GW can file a proper lawsuit.

Now, in terms of new models, if the model doesn't exist yet, but 3rd party miniature makers know that it's coming, they can try to swoop in and make it first. This is why we're kept in the dark, to prevent that from happening.

That makes sense. So is it reasonable to assume that we might hear rumors for new models based on older releases? As you said, if older model exists they don't have to defend it. For example: Sisters of Battle, Orks, Dark Eldar all desperately need new models. What would be the harm in leaking an upcoming release for them if the new models were just updated versions of the existing models?

Speak for yourself, as a Dark Eldar player I don't want them touching pretty much any of the existing kits.

New stuff? Fine, bring it on. Monopose 5-man box of wyches doing loop-de-jumps and wearing turtlenecks with locked leg and arm pairs? I'm good, thanks.

Just want a couple clampacks with my characters back, maybe an "Archon/Succubus Skyrunner" kit, other than that I think we're about all set. Replace the spaceballs helmet guardsmen first.

They just release a new edition - all of the codexes are usually subject to re-release at that point.

I.. Have you paid attention to previous editions at all? It tended to be that lucky "Are you going to get a codex this edition" sort.

One of the things with the rumors is that remember back in 2010s or so, GW did huge blocks of releases months apart, like the Dark Eldar revamp. There would often be lots of content all up on a single day, so there was plenty for rumormongers to talk about.

Nowadays we have weekly releases and are often told of them a month or two in advance, usually by White Dwarf or one of GW's own announcements. The Rumors haven't really died down, but we're just becoming acclimated to it since it went from a "thrice a year milestone" thing to "ooh lets see what we have this week".

Seriously I barely even browse the rumor section now unless it's a discussion that piques my interest, since it's either go digging for some obscure but possibly true rumor, or just wait a week or two.