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G'day all,

When I started building my Word Bearers army, it was (and still is) heavily influenced by the Word Bearers series by Anthony Reynolds (it's a really good series, and I'm attempting to build the armies detailed in the books as close to the books as the rules allow).

My dilemma is that when I started modelling the 17th Squad (described as a battle hardened squad that often strays close to their devotion to Khorne) I was using the 7th edition codex. Thus, modelling with Boltgun, Bolt Pistol and CCW (with Mark of Khorne, obviously) and paying the points for the complete loadout seemed a good way to represent a bolter-armed squad that was close-combat orientated. To keep with the theme of them being a "tactical" type unit, I gave them two flamers.

Fast forward to present day and I'm now looking at a squad that isn't strictly codex legal. I've spent time replacing the bolt pistols with the bolters, so I'm loathe to snap the bolters off and find some pistols to glue on. I also feel this doesn't fit the theme of the army, and as this is mostly a painting/modelling project that I can play friendly games with, I feel this is an overreaction. I've used the Forge World "Khorne" upgrade kit with the helmets and shoulder pads to properly show the Mark of Khorne for gameplay purposes, so I'm unable to just whip up a couple more plastic models to add into the squad.

My question to the more experienced Chaos players out there (I've not played many games since 4th edition I'm afraid) is: How do I put them into my army list?

Do I run them as Chosen and explain to my opponent that the chainswords are their "+1 attack" for being Chosen? I've already removed the flamers from the models to swap out for meltaguns or plasma guns. Would this be a viable unit?

I'm looking at something like the following:

8 Chosen
2 Meltaguns
Champion with Power Axe
Icon of Wrath

Total: 177pts.

I'm assuming I'll need to paint a Rhino up to get them to the enemy without being shot off the table.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Not sure WYSIWYG really applies anymore. It's not stated in the BRB, you are doing this for your opponent's pleasure.

An 8 man Chosen unit with Meltas is a viable unit. Small enough to take advantage of cover, shooty enough to hold an objective a couple turns.

I have the same problem - I made a "Marine Hunter" unit in 7th that had the full kit: bolter, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, plasma guns, veterans of the long war, mark of slaanesh and an icon.

I've been using them as bolter marines so far. I feel that Chosen are a bit pricey points-wise for something that's essentially a troop marine with +1A and +1Ld that's been shunted to the Elite slot.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Not sure WYSIWYG really applies anymore. It's not stated in the BRB, you are doing this for your opponent's pleasure.

An 8 man Chosen unit with Meltas is a viable unit. Small enough to take advantage of cover, shooty enough to hold an objective a couple turns.

Not only my opponents pleasure but my own - I like to be able to look at a model and know exactly what it's armed with by looking at it. Plus, even if it's not in the rules, it's likely still going to be a rule at every tournament. I used to go to tournaments a fair bit, mostly just because it was two or three solid days of gaming. Because I wasn't super competitive and just wanted to have fun, most games WERE fun. Sure I'd finish around the middle of the bottom of the pack, but whatever, I got to play games!

Thanks for the feedback on the unit itself - I'm torn between melta or plasma for the squad. Obviously they're getting in close anyway so melta seemed an obvious choice, but plasma is cheaper and a bit more versatile...

Fhanados wrote:
I have the same problem - I made a "Marine Hunter" unit in 7th that had the full kit: bolter, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, plasma guns, veterans of the long war, mark of slaanesh and an icon.

I've been using them as bolter marines so far. I feel that Chosen are a bit pricey points-wise for something that's essentially a troop marine with +1A and +1Ld that's been shunted to the Elite slot.

Yes, I was pondering why I'm paying the extra points for the +1 attack and leadership, and then I realized that I would be doing that anyway if the option remained to take a CCW in addition to the Bolter/Bolt Pistol - IIRC on a normal marine that was +3 points, and I think that's the point cost difference between the Chosen and the front line grunts. Given the detachments we have available, I'm not even afraid of them tying up an elites slot because I can always take a Vanguard detachment if I run out of slots in a Battalion.

Yeah, it was a subtle change that has created this problem for myself as well. I would have liked to have seen the 'pay points' vs 'replace' for chainswords.

I have several marines in each of my squads sprinkled with chainswords from prior editions, just to give them a bit of extra teeth if they ended up in close combat.

I am a believer in wysiwyg, as it makes identifying models easier for both my oppenent and myself.

However, in this case I have opted for the time being to clearly state to my opponent that all CSM are armed with bolters and bolt pistols. The chainswords are just modeled that way due to previous editions. So far I haven't had anyone who has had an issue with this, but it is a clear distiinction on the table.

SpookyRuben wrote:
However, in this case I have opted for the time being to clearly state to my opponent that all CSM are armed with bolters and bolt pistols. The chainswords are just modeled that way due to previous editions. So far I haven't had anyone who has had an issue with this, but it is a clear distiinction on the table.

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it, because you're being consistent. I like having cool models, not just cookie-cutter chaps in the standard marine pose with bolters! I find the only confusion is some people just take a cursory glance and assume that once they see the chainsword that the other hand has a bolt pistol and I have to draw attention to it. "No, see, I sliced up my fingers cutting off and replacing the bolt pistols with bolters! Respect my modelling prowess!"

For me, CSM flipflops on the equipment between editions so much that I just model them in the coolest pose, then write down what basic equipment they have. I have some wielding two chainswords, dual wielding pistols, dual wielding axes in some cases.

I generally make it known to my opponents which squad is armed with what (usually bolter and pistol; the shooting is more important imo). If your opponent does have a problem, you can have them wield the pistol and chainsword and just have the bolter strapped to the backpack like the DV models. WYSIWYG usually means you can have more than what you want, just not less (so if he has a bolter, bolt pistol and Chainsword, he technically can be used as anything, just ignoring the weapon he's not using at the time).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
For me, CSM flipflops on the equipment between editions so much that I just model them in the coolest pose, then write down what basic equipment they have. I have some wielding two chainswords, dual wielding pistols, dual wielding axes in some cases.

I generally make it known to my opponents which squad is armed with what (usually bolter and pistol; the shooting is more important imo). If your opponent does have a problem, you can have them wield the pistol and chainsword and just have the bolter strapped to the backpack like the DV models. WYSIWYG usually means you can have more than what you want, just not less (so if he has a bolter, bolt pistol and Chainsword, he technically can be used as anything, just ignoring the weapon he's not using at the time).

Fully agree with you modelling for the coolest look - rule of cool overrides most things in my mind, as long as it looks awesome.

I agree that they'll likely be armed with Bolter/Bolt Pistol, and if anyone asks, the Chainsword is to mark them as Chosen above the "grunts" (those I do model traditionally with the two-handed boltgun simply because I've never felt the need to burn the points for the extra attacks if their whole goal is to provide mid-range firepower).