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So Astra Militarum (specifically Tallarn) have a stratagem that allows you to flank (bring in at end of movement on table edge) 3 Tallarn units.

My question is if I were take a dedicated transport with 3 OTHER units (same detachment) inside would that count as one of the three units?
The plan was to flank psykers using that stratagem, but I am unsure if it is allowed. The dedicated transport has the regiment keyword, the psykers do not.
If anyone can steer me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

Thank you,
Papaseven.

/THREAD

 papaseven wrote:
Got it.
Just trying to be as clear as possible with my intention, and with the answer that I receive to that question. I was sure to search before I asked, and I didn't see anything that was close to what I was asking.

So you CAN take a dedicated transport, but the units inside count as units as far as the stratagem is concerned. Additionally, (and obviously, as I was clear in my original post) they have to have the correct <REGIMENT> keyword.

The crux was do units inside count if they happen to be inside a unit, and they do.
/thread

Thanks guys.

Also to note from the FAQ

Page 136 – Ambush
Change the second sentence to read:
‘Choose up to three Tallarn units to be set up in
ambush instead of placing them on the battlefield (only
one of these units can have the Vehicle keyword).’
Add the following sentence:
‘The units are considered to have moved their
maximum distance.’

Q: If I have, for example, a Tallarn unit of Leman Russ
Battle Tanks with three tanks, can I use the Ambush Stratagem
once to place all three models in ambush?
A: Yes. The same is true for any other Tallarn vehicle
squadron (Basilisks, Hellhounds, etc.).

If the Psykers don't have the TALLARN keyword they're not eligible by the wording of the Stratagem.

I think this raises more a concern regarding "does a dedicated transport count towards the 3 units limit restriction" and "do units embarked on a transport count towards the 3 unit limit restriction". Which then raises the concern, "If embarked units count as being deployed as normal at the start of game, then why doesnt units embarked on a transport for the sake of determining the 3 unit restrictions for tallarn ambush strategem"

Even if you were to flank psykers, you can only flank two units of psykers in the said transport. Which would not be as effective as youre imagining it.

And they lack the <REGIMENT> keyword so they can never be chosen as TALLARN

 skchsan wrote:
I think this raises more a concern regarding "does a dedicated transport count towards the 3 units limit restriction" and "do units embarked on a transport count towards the 3 unit limit restriction". Which then raises the concern, "If embarked units count as being deployed as normal at the start of game, then why doesnt units embarked on a transport for the sake of determining the 3 unit restrictions for tallarn ambush strategem"

Even if you were to flank psykers, you can only flank two units of psykers in the said transport. Which would not be as effective as youre imagining it.

And they lack the <REGIMENT> keyword so they can never be chosen as TALLARN

The first isn't a concern - a Dedicated Transport is just a Detachment role for list building. For game purposes, that (e.g.) Chimera is a unit. Same as any other unit. So that's not ambiguous or up for debate.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The first isn't a concern - a Dedicated Transport is just a Detachment role for list building. For game purposes, that (e.g.) Chimera is a unit. Same as any other unit. So that's not ambiguous or up for debate.

Just clarifying it for the OP that the dedicated transport DOES count towards the number of unit restriction.

When I read the post, it sounds like hes trying to load up 9 primaris psyker and a commisar in three chimeras and use tallarn ambush strategem.

 skchsan wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The first isn't a concern - a Dedicated Transport is just a Detachment role for list building. For game purposes, that (e.g.) Chimera is a unit. Same as any other unit. So that's not ambiguous or up for debate.

Just clarifying it for the OP that the dedicated transport DOES count towards the number of unit restriction.

When I read the post, it sounds like hes trying to load up 9 primaris psyker and a commisar in three chimeras and use tallarn ambush strategem.

More or less that's what I'm asking. So even though the units inside don't count against you for a drop, they do for the stratagem. Even though the chimera is what is flanking, and the psykers happen to be inside.
But you are saying the units INSIDE the transport count against the stratagem as well? That's what I'm having a hard time seeing as to if it is or isn't legal.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If the Psykers don't have the TALLARN keyword they're not eligible by the wording of the Stratagem.

But the transport does. So if the units are inside, do they count against the unit count or exempt it from being chosen for the stratagem? They just happen to be inside it.

 papaseven wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The first isn't a concern - a Dedicated Transport is just a Detachment role for list building. For game purposes, that (e.g.) Chimera is a unit. Same as any other unit. So that's not ambiguous or up for debate.

Just clarifying it for the OP that the dedicated transport DOES count towards the number of unit restriction.

When I read the post, it sounds like hes trying to load up 9 primaris psyker and a commisar in three chimeras and use tallarn ambush strategem.

More or less that's what I'm asking. So even though the units inside don't count against you for a drop, they do for the stratagem. Even though the chimera is what is flanking, and the psykers happen to be inside.
But you are saying the units INSIDE the transport count against the stratagem as well? That's what I'm having a hard time seeing as to if it is or isn't legal.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If the Psykers don't have the TALLARN keyword they're not eligible by the wording of the Stratagem.

But the transport does. So if the units are inside, do they count against the unit count or exempt it from being chosen for the stratagem? They just happen to be inside it.

The interaction becomes an issue when youre calculating how many models you have deployed for the purpose of determinig how many units can be held in tactical reserves. While the rules for embarking clearly states that embarked units are considered to be not "set up on battlefield", many argue that they do count for ha ing models set up at deployment.

Where your potential strat comes to an issue is that, "if i have 10 sepaprate units within a single unit called a transport, the entire count of 11 units I have are considered to be 1 unit", which is contradictory & inconsistent to other rulings.

 papaseven wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The first isn't a concern - a Dedicated Transport is just a Detachment role for list building. For game purposes, that (e.g.) Chimera is a unit. Same as any other unit. So that's not ambiguous or up for debate.

Just clarifying it for the OP that the dedicated transport DOES count towards the number of unit restriction.

When I read the post, it sounds like hes trying to load up 9 primaris psyker and a commisar in three chimeras and use tallarn ambush strategem.

More or less that's what I'm asking. So even though the units inside don't count against you for a drop, they do for the stratagem. Even though the chimera is what is flanking, and the psykers happen to be inside.
But you are saying the units INSIDE the transport count against the stratagem as well? That's what I'm having a hard time seeing as to if it is or isn't legal.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If the Psykers don't have the TALLARN keyword they're not eligible by the wording of the Stratagem.

But the transport does. So if the units are inside, do they count against the unit count or exempt it from being chosen for the stratagem? They just happen to be inside it.

There's no such thing as 'just happen to be inside it' for the Chimera... if the unit isn't permitted to be deployed off the table, it must deploy on the table.
As the Psykers aren't TALLARN they can't be chosen for the Ambush Stratagem.
Anything inside the Chimera set up in Ambush must have the TALLARN keyword and would count toward the number of units permitted to Ambush by the Stratagem. Why would they have any exemption?

Got it.
Just trying to be as clear as possible with my intention, and with the answer that I receive to that question. I was sure to search before I asked, and I didn't see anything that was close to what I was asking.

So you CAN take a dedicated transport, but the units inside count as units as far as the stratagem is concerned. Additionally, (and obviously, as I was clear in my original post) they have to have the correct <REGIMENT> keyword.

The crux was do units inside count if they happen to be inside a unit, and they do.
/thread

Thanks guys.

Yeah, that's how I'd read it, else you're deploying >3 units in Ambush.

I believe you can still manipulate things a little... for example, Ambush a Leman Russ Squadron. They are chosen as one unit, and only become 3 separate units once deployed (check their datasheet rules). So that would allow 3 tanks in the 'one VEHICLE unit' slot, and still possibility of Ambushing with two Infantry squads as well.

I agree. In theory you could put 9 exterminators anywhere on a table edge you wanted. But would they make it in before you got tabled if you dont get first turn?

 papaseven wrote:
I agree. In theory you could put 9 exterminators anywhere on a table edge you wanted. But would they make it in before you got tabled if you dont get first turn? Probably.

Three, max, since the FAQ. ;-)

From the FAQ

Page 136 – Ambush
Change the second sentence to read:
‘Choose up to three Tallarn units to be set up in
ambush instead of placing them on the battlefield (only
one of these units can have the Vehicle keyword).’
Add the following sentence:
‘The units are considered to have moved their
maximum distance.’

 papaseven wrote:
From the FAQ

Page 136 – Ambush
Change the second sentence to read:
‘Choose up to three Tallarn units to be set up in
ambush instead of placing them on the battlefield (only
one of these units can have the Vehicle keyword).’
Add the following sentence:
‘The units are considered to have moved their
maximum distance.’

I know that. Three Leman Russes can be chosen as a unit when list-building, and only become separate units on deployment, no?

Yes. And they confirmed in the FAQ you can take 3 tanks and it counts as one if you take the squadron.
I was only posting that for anyone else that was curious so they didnt have to look it up!

Q: If I have, for example, a Tallarn unit of Leman Russ
Battle Tanks with three tanks, can I use the Ambush Stratagem
once to place all three models in ambush?
A: Yes. The same is true for any other Tallarn vehicle
squadron (Basilisks, Hellhounds, etc.).