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So I know the Ynnari models cannot benefit for Craftworld attributes (as dictated by the new Eldar codex). But is there anything preventing any of the following?

Alaitoc Patrol:
Farseer
Rangers
2 Wave Serpents

Alaitoc Flyers:
2 Hemlock & 1 Crimson Hunter

Ynnari Vanguard:
Yvraine
2x 5 WraithGuard
Fire Dragons

Yvraine is the Warlord and only the WG & Dragons chose to be Ynnari (it is voluntary)
WG start in the Serpents with Yvraine and Farseer. Fire Dragons use a Webway stratagem to drop in and shoot.
Hemlock possibly casts Quicken on the Dragons to get them within 6" before firing on a target they can kill, then Soulburst to shoot again.

Am I missing anything? I am pretty sure that Ynnari models can still embark on to Wave serpents as long as they have the <Craftworld> keyword. And I am pretty sure you can still give the <Alaitoc> keyword to the WG even if they don't recieve the attribute.
Also pretty sure that CW stratagems can apply to Ynnari models for the same reason since you only need a CW detachment to use CW stratagems and the units in question are <Asuryani><Craftworld> or whatever the stratagem requires.

Man, this is shaping up to be just as complicated as 7th ed.

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Hello we need to wait the rules I'm not sure you could put your wraithguard in the serpent.

However you really want to drop the patrol and rangers they arent that good (even with -2hit).

You would rather take a brigade 1 spiritseer + another or a warlock and so you get : one more CP, 2 more smite or spells to buff (quicken?) your wraithguard, 2 more target to soulburst, reroll 1 to hit for wraiguard

Just wait until the book's out to make sure what the new costs are on Rangers; they might still be worth it (especially if you have Illic, if he's still around).

Then again, I figure at some point they'll completely rename the Eldar Rangers. First we lose the Pathfinders because the Tau bogarted the name to cause confustion, not you have Skitarii Rangers trying to steal another name from the Eldar. (Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. I really liked Pathfinders back with the 3rd edition Craftworlds supplement. They can move in impassable terrain? Wild stuff.)

strateger wrote:
Hello I though a similar list.

However you really want to drop the patrol and get a brigade instead drop rangers they arent that good (even with -2hit).

You would rather take 1 spiritseer + another or a warlock and so you get : one more CP, 2 more smite or spells to buff your wraithguard, 2 more target to soulburst, reroll 1 to hit for wraiguard

Well, my WG have Scythes, so reroll 1s to hit does nothing on an auto-hit weapon. I do need to tweak the list a bit once I have the Codex in my hands, but for now I just want to know if adding Ynnari can be taken alongside Craftworlders.

They should be able to given the following:
- Yvraine needs to be in separate detachment and needs to be Warlord so that the WG and Dragons can get Soulburst.
- Having the rest of my units in Alaitoc detachments should mean that they benefit for the attribute. The WG and Dragons will not, however they can still have the <Aliatoc> keyword
- Any stratagems that apply to <Alaitoc>,<Craftworld>,<Asuryani>, etc will still apply to the WG and Dragons because they still have those keywords.
- <Alaitoc> Serpents may transport <Alaitoc> units, which the WG and Dragon are, despite also being Ynnari. Yvraine has her own special rule to embark on the Serpents with them.

If I am reading the Codex reviews correctly, this is all true and being Ynnari only prevents units from benefiting from a Craftworld's attribute (Fieldcraft in this case), but does not seem to affect anything else.

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 doctortom wrote:
Just wait until the book's out to make sure what the new costs are on Rangers; they might still be worth it (especially if you have Illic, if he's still around).

Then again, I figure at some point they'll completely rename the Eldar Rangers. First we lose the Pathfinders because the Tau bogarted the name to cause confustion, not you have Skitarii Rangers trying to steal another name from the Eldar. (Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. I really liked Pathfinders back with the 3rd edition Craftworlds supplement. They can move in impassable terrain? Wild stuff.)

Rangers are 60pts and have same rules than index but never make their point back, nor as good for objective (not very mobile and very vulnerable to deep strike)

strateger wrote:
Rangers are 60pts and have same rules than index but never make their point back, nor as good for objective (not very mobile and very vulnerable to deep strike)

You can say the exact same thing about Dire Avengers and Guardians, meaning that Eldar have complete garbage troops.
At least rangers A) don't need a babysitter or transport and B) can be set up later and anywhere outside 9" of enemies.
You actually don't care if they are vulnerable to deep striking units as they are deployed in a way that pushes those units away from your more valuable stuff.
It isn't ideal, but they are the cheapest option that serves a real purpose. Being -2 to hit and having 3+ armour save while in cover is nothing to scoff at.

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 Galef wrote:

strateger wrote:
Rangers are 60pts and have same rules than index but never make their point back, nor as good for objective (not very mobile and very vulnerable to deep strike)

You can say the exact same thing about Dire Avengers and Guardians, meaning that Eldar have complete garbage troops.
At least rangers A) don't need a babysitter or transport and B) can be set up later and anywhere outside 9" of enemies.
You actually don't care if they are vulnerable to deep striking units as they are deployed in a way that pushes those units away from your more valuable stuff.
It isn't ideal, but they are the cheapest option that serves a real purpose. Being -2 to hit and having 3+ armour save while in cover is nothing to scoff at.

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I cant say the same thing about guardians, now with codex they are worth a try in a different list.
Webway 20 with platforms if supported with doom (or soulburst) them they bring their point back vs marines in one turn.

Of course they could die quick but they get the job done.
Or not is you use 1CP for the stratagem (4++ svg) => eventually 3++ with protect LOL. Now they are toughest than marines
Ideally you want them ulthwe for FNP or ylianden (immune to morale, lost 1 model if you fail your LD check) but ynarri is a solid choice

Uh, this is YMDC, not the tactica. OP had a rules question.

As far as I can tell, the scenario described works. The rules are fairly complicated, so I could be wrong. The codex only says that a detachment with any Ynnari units in it is not a Craftworlds detachment, and doesn't benefit from Craftworld attributes or the fancy-named Objective Secured.

 Cream Tea wrote:
As far as I can tell, the scenario described works. The rules are fairly complicated, so I could be wrong. The codex only says that a detachment with any Ynnari units in it is not a Craftworlds detachment, and doesn't benefit from Craftworld attributes or the fancy-named Objective Secured.

Thank you.
I still think that SfD is a better rule for WG that any of the attributes, so I was just trying to change my list up in a way that gives them that, yet gives the new attributes to my other units and access to the CW stratagems.

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 Cream Tea wrote:
Uh, this is YMDC, not the tactica. OP had a rules question.

As far as I can tell, the scenario described works. The rules are fairly complicated, so I could be wrong. The codex only says that a detachment with any Ynnari units in it is not a Craftworlds detachment, and doesn't benefit from Craftworld attributes or the fancy-named Objective Secured.

I understand this is not the place to have a debate on tactica here.
The codex isnt clear on what Craftworld attributes means.

I swear some people would argue it remove the Craftworld battletag from unit rendering then the list obsolete,
We would probably get clarifications in a future FAQ or with the new rules included in the reconditoned Triumvirate Box

A couple problems.

1. Im pretty sure you only get a craftworld trait/keyword if the whole detachment qualifies. You dont just replace <craftworld> with whatever you want, you only select one if your whole detatchment meets the requirments in the codex. So ynnari asuryans will not have a specific craftworld keyword or special rules.

2. The hemlock cannot cast quicken. It is locked into the offensive side of the runes. You'll need a warlock or spiritseer to cast quicken.

Other than that you should be alright.

If the WG get to keep <Alaitoc> when they are Ynarri (I'm not sure about this right now, but I don't have the index near me to check, and if it is in the index whether it will change for the rereleased Triumverate box and we'll get a FAQ telling us of the change), you could consider putting in a Bonesinger. He's a pysker who can heal <CRAFTWORLD> VEHICLES or WRAITH CONSTRUCTS (he can also Smite, but you'd probably want him for healing the WG and the vehicles) for only 70 points. Datasheet's up on the Community Website.

I think the big sticking point is whether you still get a separate <CRAFTWORLD> or if Ynarri replaces that.

As of now, the Index rules (including errata) are the current ones for Ynnari, they remove Battle Focus, Ancient Doom etc., but not [Craftworld], or any other keyword.

If the Ynarri rules are going in the Triumvirate box there are most likely two options for what will happen, as I see it:

1 - If they're updated rules, but not in the Eldar Codex, they'll be put up on WHC for free (a la Bonesinger)
2 - If they're simply Index reprints with no changes, it allows GW to let Index Xenos 1 go out of print without making it impossible for customers to get rules for the models.

I'm betting it's 2.

 Cream Tea wrote:
As of now, the Index rules (including errata) are the current ones for Ynnari, they remove Battle Focus, Ancient Doom etc., but not [Craftworld], or any other keyword.

They keep [Craftworld] but in order for [Craftworld] to be replaced with a specific craftworld, like [Alaitoc], you need the detachment to follow the requirments in the CWE codex (like picking a legion).

ParadoxGaming wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
As of now, the Index rules (including errata) are the current ones for Ynnari, they remove Battle Focus, Ancient Doom etc., but not [Craftworld], or any other keyword.

They keep [Craftworld] but in order for [Craftworld] to be replaced with a specific craftworld, like [Alaitoc], you need the detachment to follow the requirments in the CWE codex (like picking a legion).

Source on that? The codex says:

With the exception of some units, such as the mysterious Phoenix Lords, all Asuryani belong to a craftworld. Some datasheets specify which craftworld the unit is from (e.g. Prince Yriel has the Iyanden keyword, so is from Craftworld Iyanden). If an Asuryani datasheet does not specify which craftworld it is from, it will have the <Craftworld> keyword. When you include such a unit in your army, you must nominate which craftworld that unit is from. You then simply replace the <Craftworld> keyword in every instance on that unit's datasheet with the name of your chosen craftworld.

 Cream Tea wrote:

ParadoxGaming wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
As of now, the Index rules (including errata) are the current ones for Ynnari, they remove Battle Focus, Ancient Doom etc., but not [Craftworld], or any other keyword.

They keep [Craftworld] but in order for [Craftworld] to be replaced with a specific craftworld, like [Alaitoc], you need the detachment to follow the requirments in the CWE codex (like picking a legion).

Source on that? The codex says:

With the exception of some units, such as the mysterious Phoenix Lords, all Asuryani belong to a craftworld. Some datasheets specify which craftworld the unit is from (e.g. Prince Yriel has the Iyanden keyword, so is from Craftworld Iyanden). If an Asuryani datasheet does not specify which craftworld it is from, it will have the <Craftworld> keyword. When you include such a unit in your army, you must nominate which craftworld that unit is from. You then simply replace the <Craftworld> keyword in every instance on that unit's datasheet with the name of your chosen craftworld.

Yep, thats for like narrative etc... Are you sure that's from the new codex and not the index?

Otherwise, according to that. I am building a battalion detachment. My rangers are Alaitoc, my wraithlords are Iyanden, and my bikers are saimhan. All in the one single detachment. According to what you posted, I followed the rules and each datasheet has [craftworld] replaced with whatever I want on all copies of that data sheet...

Its one of the matched play rules. I dont have the new codex im not a super cool youtube channel =(, but ill try and find where I heard the rule in one of the reviews. If you have the new codex, check after the datasheets.

Edit: Maybe I am misunderstanding, Picking a trait sets your keywords as far as I know (in the new codex). Not the otherway around. According to a note from GW, Ynnari units will never benefit from a craftworld trait, which would be any benefit from the keyword. So deciding your detatchment is a specific craftworld, would change all the craftworld keywords to that craftworld.

Either way I doubt you will get any benefit to having a craftworld keyword on a ynnari unit.

Well, you can always shove different Craftworlds/regiments/chapters in the same detachment. It’s legal you just don’t get any of the craftworld/regiment/chapter bonuses.

Unless the Eldar Codex works differently than the IG one, you replace the <craftworld> keyword when you add them to your army, as per the description of that keyword. In that case this list looks perfectly legal to me.

I never said his list was illegal, I said that the hemlock cant buff, it can only debuff.

I would have to see it. Just doesnt sound right. Theres a rule about legions/chapters that clears this up. Not sure where it is though.

Basically according to yall I can take rangers in a ynnari detatchment, give them the alaitoc keyword, and suddenly when you target them I get to use the stratagem that makes you hit on 6's.

According to GW I just need any [craftworld] detatchment to get access to the stratagems and the stratagem says that you must tarrget alaitoc rangers which they are....

The book keeping would be a pain as well. Tryin to remember which unit has what keyword and would be affected by which aura. Your opponent would have to make sure your alaitoc autarch isnt giving rerolls to your Iyanden wraithguard that are all in the same detachment.

Basically, if you get "no bonuses" to having the keyword, and having a keyword gives you access to a bonus (in OP's case, 1's to hit) then even if he could take the keyword, it wouldnt do what he wants.

ParadoxGaming wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:

ParadoxGaming wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
As of now, the Index rules (including errata) are the current ones for Ynnari, they remove Battle Focus, Ancient Doom etc., but not [Craftworld], or any other keyword.

They keep [Craftworld] but in order for [Craftworld] to be replaced with a specific craftworld, like [Alaitoc], you need the detachment to follow the requirments in the CWE codex (like picking a legion).

Source on that? The codex says:

With the exception of some units, such as the mysterious Phoenix Lords, all Asuryani belong to a craftworld. Some datasheets specify which craftworld the unit is from (e.g. Prince Yriel has the Iyanden keyword, so is from Craftworld Iyanden). If an Asuryani datasheet does not specify which craftworld it is from, it will have the <Craftworld> keyword. When you include such a unit in your army, you must nominate which craftworld that unit is from. You then simply replace the <Craftworld> keyword in every instance on that unit's datasheet with the name of your chosen craftworld.

Yep, thats for like narrative etc... Are you sure that's from the new codex and not the index?

Otherwise, according to that. I am building a battalion detachment. My rangers are Alaitoc, my wraithlords are Iyanden, and my bikers are saimhan. All in the one single detachment. According to what you posted, I followed the rules and each datasheet has [craftworld] replaced with whatever I want on all copies of that data sheet...

Its one of the matched play rules. I dont have the new codex im not a super cool youtube channel =(, but ill try and find where I heard the rule in one of the reviews. If you have the new codex, check after the datasheets.

Edit: Maybe I am misunderstanding, Picking a trait sets your keywords as far as I know (in the new codex). Not the otherway around. According to a note from GW, Ynnari units will never benefit from a craftworld trait, which would be any benefit from the keyword. So deciding your detatchment is a specific craftworld, would change all the craftworld keywords to that craftworld.

Either way I doubt you will get any benefit to having a craftworld keyword on a ynnari unit.

The quote is from the new codex, not the index. It's right after the datasheets, and makes it pretty clear that you pick a craftworld for each <Craftworld> unit in your army. It doesn't say you only do this for a craftworld detachment, which makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty sure for example that an Ynnari Autarch is meant to be able to grant rerolls to other Ynnari units in his army as long as they share the same craftworld. In most cases it's not very relevant, but by the same logic you should choose a kabal for any kabal units, a masque for any masque units etc. I have not seen a single line of text that says otherwise.

 Cream Tea wrote:

ParadoxGaming wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:

ParadoxGaming wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
As of now, the Index rules (including errata) are the current ones for Ynnari, they remove Battle Focus, Ancient Doom etc., but not [Craftworld], or any other keyword.

They keep [Craftworld] but in order for [Craftworld] to be replaced with a specific craftworld, like [Alaitoc], you need the detachment to follow the requirments in the CWE codex (like picking a legion).

Source on that? The codex says:

With the exception of some units, such as the mysterious Phoenix Lords, all Asuryani belong to a craftworld. Some datasheets specify which craftworld the unit is from (e.g. Prince Yriel has the Iyanden keyword, so is from Craftworld Iyanden). If an Asuryani datasheet does not specify which craftworld it is from, it will have the <Craftworld> keyword. When you include such a unit in your army, you must nominate which craftworld that unit is from. You then simply replace the <Craftworld> keyword in every instance on that unit's datasheet with the name of your chosen craftworld.

Yep, thats for like narrative etc... Are you sure that's from the new codex and not the index?

Otherwise, according to that. I am building a battalion detachment. My rangers are Alaitoc, my wraithlords are Iyanden, and my bikers are saimhan. All in the one single detachment. According to what you posted, I followed the rules and each datasheet has [craftworld] replaced with whatever I want on all copies of that data sheet...

Its one of the matched play rules. I dont have the new codex im not a super cool youtube channel =(, but ill try and find where I heard the rule in one of the reviews. If you have the new codex, check after the datasheets.

Edit: Maybe I am misunderstanding, Picking a trait sets your keywords as far as I know (in the new codex). Not the otherway around. According to a note from GW, Ynnari units will never benefit from a craftworld trait, which would be any benefit from the keyword. So deciding your detatchment is a specific craftworld, would change all the craftworld keywords to that craftworld.

Either way I doubt you will get any benefit to having a craftworld keyword on a ynnari unit.

The quote is from the new codex, not the index. It's right after the datasheets, and makes it pretty clear that you pick a craftworld for each <Craftworld> unit in your army. It doesn't say you only do this for a craftworld detachment, which makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty sure for example that an Ynnari Autarch is meant to be able to grant rerolls to other Ynnari units in his army as long as they share the same craftworld. In most cases it's not very relevant, but by the same logic you should choose a kabal for any kabal units, a masque for any masque units etc. I have not seen a single line of text that says otherwise.

You get no bonus when being ynnari, having the keyword gives you access to a bonus (rerolling 1's in the autarch's case). According to GW you dont get it as ynnari. So if youre right, then we have to not only keep track of who has what keyword, but also out of those who can actually benefit from that keyword.

Thats super confusing. Otherwise: I have alaitoc rangers in an alaitoc detatchment, then I have more alaitoc rangers in a ynnari detatchment. According to your RAW I can use the alaitoc stratagem on the ynnari rangers because I have access to the strat and that unit fits the keyword. Yet "you cannot benefit from a craftworld as ynnari"... Now my opponent has to keep track of which alaitoc units actually have -1 to hit, and which do not.

Still trying to find that legions rule. Why would GW make it so you can have a keyword but cant benefit from it. Doesnt make sense... but its not like that has stop gw before! lol.

Hell in the ITC you would need 1 color scheme for your alaitoc then another color scheme for the alaitoc in the ynnari detachment that don't get -1, then another color scheme for the ynnari. I definitely think we are missing something here.

The way I am interpreting it is that all Asuryani in my ARMY can replace the <Craftwolrd> keyword with one of the 5 Craftworlds.
But only units in detachments in which EVERY single other unit in that detachment share the same CW can benefit from that CW Attribute. So the WG & Dragons would NOT because Yvraine is in their detachment and cannot have the <Alaitoc> keyword. Every other unit in my army is in a detachment in which all units are <Alaitoc>, so those units all get the Attriute and access to all other bonuses.

I also think that the WG and Dragons WOULD be able to benefit from any other rule or Psychic power that names units with any keyword they have. So Quicken can affect the because the only requirements are that the unit be <Asuryani><Infantry> or <Bikes>. Being Ynnari is irrelevant
Also, they would benefit from an Autarch or be able to embark in a Serpent because both only require a matching <Craftworld> keyword and <Infantry>. Even if they are Ynnari, they can still have the <Alaitoc> keyword.

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