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So, stormboyz can advance and charge in the same turn, but roll a D6 for each model after overwatch is resolved, and on rolls of 1 that unit takes mortal wounds.

But a warboss allows any ork infantry to advance and charge in the same turn with no penalty.

If stormboyz were near a warboss and advanced, would they be able to use his ability to charge with no penalty? Or would the by subject to their own rule that deals damage to the unit?

Good question. My gut reaction is that when two rules coincide, you would choose the one you prefer. Much like if you have two types of "Feel No Pain" (say it's innate and you have a psychic power giving you one) --- you pick the one you wish to use.

Sounds like a good question for GW. It's also possible that somewhere they've dictated whether a units own rules supercede those granted to them -or not?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Stormboy ability says when you advance this happens. The way I read it is that its not optional. It just happens. You cannot choose to ignore that special ability. So in my mind RAW even if you did have a warboss they would still have to not roll 1s. This is coming from an Ork player btw. Personally I would have no problem with you ignoring it and not having to worry about it, but I do believe that would be a house rule.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Stormboy ability says when you advance this happens. The way I read it is that its not optional. It just happens. You cannot choose to ignore that special ability. So in my mind RAW even if you did have a warboss they would still have to not roll 1s. This is coming from an Ork player btw. Personally I would have no problem with you ignoring it and not having to worry about it, but I do believe that would be a house rule.

It happens during the charge step, not during advancing.

Further the rule full throttle is a can statement not a must.

I definitely see what you're asking. I feel that having the Warboss nearby allows them to charge without the risk of mortal wounds. If not there would never be a reason to have him near the stormboys. When outside his aura they can still advance and charge but after testing to see how many die. No official call on this yet, however.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Stormboy ability says when you advance this happens. The way I read it is that its not optional. It just happens. You cannot choose to ignore that special ability. So in my mind RAW even if you did have a warboss they would still have to not roll 1s. This is coming from an Ork player btw. Personally I would have no problem with you ignoring it and not having to worry about it, but I do believe that would be a house rule.

I'm honestly inclined to agree, but I could see one arguing against it.

I can't think of any other rules issue where two overlapping rules could interact in this way.

blaktoof wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Stormboy ability says when you advance this happens. The way I read it is that its not optional. It just happens. You cannot choose to ignore that special ability. So in my mind RAW even if you did have a warboss they would still have to not roll 1s. This is coming from an Ork player btw. Personally I would have no problem with you ignoring it and not having to worry about it, but I do believe that would be a house rule.

It happens during the charge step, not during advancing.

Further the rule full throttle is a can statement not a must.

"This unit can Advance and charge in the same turn, but if it does so, roll a D6for each model after any Overwatch has been resolved, for each roll of a 1, the unit suffers a mortal wound."

Its just an ability that the unit has. Whenever you advance and charge for whatever reason this ability is triggered. If you are near a warboss you have two seperate abilities that give you option of charging even though you advance. Both are affecting the stormboyz and both are 100% in effect. You cannot just choose to use the Warboss aura and not use the stormboy ability. Whenever you advance and charge the full throttle rule kicks in. Again I think it should not be that way, but that is, to my best understanding, how it actually works.

Both abilities apply, and since the Stormboy one is not optional, it still happens.

I know "fluff is not rules" but it would seem that the idea is that the StormBoyz overcharge their rockets when they Charge after Advancing which can potentially cause them to explode.

Thus, that will always happen, regardless of how they got to do both.

MadSpy wrote:
I know "fluff is not rules" but it would seem that the idea is that the StormBoyz overcharge their rockets when they Charge after Advancing which can potentially cause them to explode.

Thus, that will always happen, regardless of how they got to do both.

From fluff POV wouldn't they not be doing that via rokkits but by whatever waagh power warboss is giving. But since fluff isn't rules sure looks like they blow up anyway.

I'd allow the more advantageous reading and use the Warboss' ability instead of the Stormboyz own. Two things that can happen that do the same, owning player chooses which.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I'd allow the more advantageous reading and use the Warboss' ability instead of the Stormboyz own. Two things that can happen that do the same, owning player chooses which.

Except you'd be ignoring the rules?

It's not a case of two things happening and a player getting to choose the order, it's a case of two things happening, period. You get to pick the order but they still both happen.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I'd allow the more advantageous reading and use the Warboss' ability instead of the Stormboyz own. Two things that can happen that do the same, owning player chooses which.

Except you'd be ignoring the rules?

It's not a case of two things happening and a player getting to choose the order, it's a case of two things happening, period. You get to pick the order but they still both happen.

I'd argue that I am following the rules, and that it's essentially two variants of the same ability. I see it that they stack, and the superior version of the ability takes precedence. You don't. Good times. Let's not have 11 pages of us repeating the same thing different ways eh?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I'd allow the more advantageous reading and use the Warboss' ability instead of the Stormboyz own. Two things that can happen that do the same, owning player chooses which.

Except you'd be ignoring the rules?

It's not a case of two things happening and a player getting to choose the order, it's a case of two things happening, period. You get to pick the order but they still both happen.

I'd argue that I am following the rules, and that it's essentially two variants of the same ability. I see it that they stack, and the superior version of the ability takes precedence. You don't. Good times. Let's not have 11 pages of us repeating the same thing different ways eh?

Please show me where they "stack". Like, provide a rules citation, not "I think it's intended to work this way." Burden of proof is on you to support your "reading", since my reading is how grammar and the rules work.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Stormboy ability says when you advance this happens. The way I read it is that its not optional. It just happens. You cannot choose to ignore that special ability. So in my mind RAW even if you did have a warboss they would still have to not roll 1s. This is coming from an Ork player btw. Personally I would have no problem with you ignoring it and not having to worry about it, but I do believe that would be a house rule.

Well the point is that the Warboss ability changes the unit it applies to. Normal Ork infantry for instance can't charge at all after advancing, but with a Warboss around they change to be able to do so. Likewise, the Warboss changes the rules regarding Stormboyz, who can not charge after advancing without risking a mortal wound, but with a Warboss around they change to be able to do so.

Gwarok wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Stormboy ability says when you advance this happens. The way I read it is that its not optional. It just happens. You cannot choose to ignore that special ability. So in my mind RAW even if you did have a warboss they would still have to not roll 1s. This is coming from an Ork player btw. Personally I would have no problem with you ignoring it and not having to worry about it, but I do believe that would be a house rule.

Well the point is that the Warboss ability changes the unit it applies to. Normal Ork infantry for instance can't charge at all after advancing, but with a Warboss around they change to be able to do so. Likewise, the Warboss changes the rules regarding Stormboyz, who can not charge after advancing without risking a mortal wound, but with a Warboss around they change to be able to do so.

The problem is there isn't a rules statement backing up saying it overwrites the Stormboyz rules. Yes, it gives permission to charge if you couldn't before, but if a unit could already charge but with consequences, the Warboss' rule doesn't state that it eliminates the consequences. it's something that would be good for a FAQ as the intention could be argued either way.

 doctortom wrote:

Gwarok wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Stormboy ability says when you advance this happens. The way I read it is that its not optional. It just happens. You cannot choose to ignore that special ability. So in my mind RAW even if you did have a warboss they would still have to not roll 1s. This is coming from an Ork player btw. Personally I would have no problem with you ignoring it and not having to worry about it, but I do believe that would be a house rule.

Well the point is that the Warboss ability changes the unit it applies to. Normal Ork infantry for instance can't charge at all after advancing, but with a Warboss around they change to be able to do so. Likewise, the Warboss changes the rules regarding Stormboyz, who can not charge after advancing without risking a mortal wound, but with a Warboss around they change to be able to do so.

The problem is there isn't a rules statement backing up saying it overwrites the Stormboyz rules. Yes, it gives permission to charge if you couldn't before, but if a unit could already charge but with consequences, the Warboss' rule doesn't state that it eliminates the consequences. it's something that would be good for a FAQ as the intention could be argued either way.

Have to agree. The rule unfortunately states that it just happens, so long as the condition that they advanced and charged is met. There's no clear exemption provided anywhere (nor even a particularly vague one, either IMO), so the D6 roll has to be taken.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I'd allow the more advantageous reading and use the Warboss' ability instead of the Stormboyz own. Two things that can happen that do the same, owning player chooses which.

Except you'd be ignoring the rules?

It's not a case of two things happening and a player getting to choose the order, it's a case of two things happening, period. You get to pick the order but they still both happen.

I'd argue that I am following the rules, and that it's essentially two variants of the same ability. I see it that they stack, and the superior version of the ability takes precedence. You don't. Good times. Let's not have 11 pages of us repeating the same thing different ways eh?

Please show me where they "stack". Like, provide a rules citation, not "I think it's intended to work this way." Burden of proof is on you to support your "reading", since my reading is how grammar and the rules work.

There's very little point having a HIPWI vs RAW debate is there? Indeed it's enshrined in the Tenets not to. So read my post, see where I said "I'd allow"... yep? Cool.

 Elbows wrote:
Good question. My gut reaction is that when two rules coincide, you would choose the one you prefer. Much like if you have two types of "Feel No Pain" (say it's innate and you have a psychic power giving you one) --- you pick the one you wish to use.

While off topic, just want to offer a correction on the bolded statement. If you have multiple sources of FNP, you don't have to pick, you get both. So, if you have two 6+ FNP sources, you get two opportunities to ignore wounds.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Good question. My gut reaction is that when two rules coincide, you would choose the one you prefer. Much like if you have two types of "Feel No Pain" (say it's innate and you have a psychic power giving you one) --- you pick the one you wish to use.

While off topic, just want to offer a correction on the bolded statement. If you have multiple sources of FNP, you don't have to pick, you get both. So, if you have two 6+ FNP sources, you get two opportunities to ignore wounds.

Exactly, both rules happens. It just so happens one rule always causes you to roll to see if models get killed or not, regardless of whether another source lets you charge after advancing, because the rule explicitly triggers when you charge.

I stand corrected - though I haven't seen that rule in print. I was thinking of invulnerable saves (in which case you choose one). Personally I'd disagree with two or more FNP abilities, but that sounds suitably Warhammer...so you're probably correct.

MadSpy wrote:
I know "fluff is not rules" but it would seem that the idea is that the StormBoyz overcharge their rockets when they Charge after Advancing which can potentially cause them to explode.

Thus, that will always happen, regardless of how they got to do both.

Exactly.

 Elbows wrote:
I stand corrected - though I haven't seen that rule in print. I was thinking of invulnerable saves (in which case you choose one). Personally I'd disagree with two or more FNP abilities, but that sounds suitably Warhammer...so you're probably correct.

OT, but for clarification:

Rulebook FAQ 1.1 wrote:Q: If a model has two rules that allow it to ignore wounds, such as the Disgustingly Resilient ability and the Tenacious Survivor Warlord Trait, can I use them both?
A: Unless stated otherwise, yes.
For example, if a model had the two aforementioned abilities and lost a wound, you could roll a D6 due to the Disgustingly Resilient ability and on a roll of 5+ that wound would be ignored. If you rolled less than 5, you could then roll another D6 because of the Tenacious Survivor Warlord Trait, and this time the wound would be ignored on a 6.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Good question. My gut reaction is that when two rules coincide, you would choose the one you prefer. Much like if you have two types of "Feel No Pain" (say it's innate and you have a psychic power giving you one) --- you pick the one you wish to use.

While off topic, just want to offer a correction on the bolded statement. If you have multiple sources of FNP, you don't have to pick, you get both. So, if you have two 6+ FNP sources, you get two opportunities to ignore wounds.

Exactly, both rules happens. It just so happens one rule always causes you to roll to see if models get killed or not, regardless of whether another source lets you charge after advancing, because the rule explicitly triggers when you charge.

I'd have to agree with you honestly. Stormboyz can advance and charge thanks to 2 rules, and have to follow both, silly though it is.