Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is it possible to take Militarum Tempestus in a Gene Stealer Cult affiliated AM detachment? I know that everyone with the <regiment> tag replaces this with Brood Brothers and gains no regimental doctrine, but does this mean that post FAQ I have to shelve my scions?

I don't see why you can't. They have the Astra Militartum Keyword and thus qualify under Brood Brothers. They would actually keep the Militarum Tempestus keyword because that is not <Regiment>.

Would that also hold for DKoK and Elysians then? As both they and Tempestus have those keywords locked in as their regiment.

Drager wrote:
Would that also hold for DKoK and Elysians then? As both they and Tempestus have those keywords locked in as their regiment.

I'd say no, and you probably wouldn't want to anyway - I'd argue that you're supposed to loose the doctrine "baked into" those forces, and therefore your Elysian Brood Brothers would loose their Deep Strike abilities, for example. That's assuming it is even possible at all, or simply houseruled to allow it.

Note: That's HIWPI.

I think that GCS can include scions and remove Militarum Tempestus Regiment but cannot gain benefit from Brood Brothers regimental doctrine ( if it turn up in new GCS codex )

Just for now. Treat it as Astra Militarum unit until FAQ came out.
I also have 30 scions :(

I was thinking that it would allow Tempestus, but not DKoK or Elysians, but it doesn't read that way to me. I think it either allows or all 3 or disallows them. I'm using my plasma squads as Scions at the moment anyway so doesn't matter too much, but am still curious.

Solidcrash wrote:
I think that GCS can include scions and remove Militarum Tempestus Regiment but cannot gain benefit from Brood Brothers regimental doctrine ( if it turn up in new GCS codex )

Just for now. Treat it as Astra Militarum unit until FAQ came out.
I also have 30 scions :(

Mine are conversions, so I can always use them as something else. I was using them as Elysians until the FAQ. I only have 1 unit of 'real' Scions as I like my IG to have tyranid bits and the uniform they wear I made from bits of Victoria Miniatures models.

Rules as written you can include things with Astra militarum keyword.

If they have <regiment> it must be replaced with Brood Brothers.

So yes you can take militarum tempestus, they don't have regiment so don't need to follow that part.

The FAQ doesn't indicate the units are required to have regiment keyword.

Further there is nothing preventing elysians or DKoK to be brood brothers.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I don't see why you can't. They have the Astra Militartum Keyword and thus qualify under Brood Brothers. They would actually keep the Militarum Tempestus keyword because that is not <Regiment>.

I agree that a GSC player could field Scions as Brood Brothers but I think that they would lose the Militarum Tempestus Keyword and associated doctrine.

My reasoning is that page 84 of the AM Codex states that "units with the Militarium Tempestus keyword treat this as their <Regiment> keyword in all respects..." Since it says "all respects" I think that RAW it means that they are not Militarium Tempestus anymore when they become Brood Brothers in accordance with the AM FAQ. So you could play the models but they could not use the associated Tempestus Doctrines.

Good catch. They would indeed lose Militarum Tempestus.

Drager wrote:
Would that also hold for DKoK and Elysians then? As both they and Tempestus have those keywords locked in as their regiment.

Neither DKOK nor EDT are explicitly regiments (although we all know that this is how they are probably intended to be considered). The units with <REGIMENT> you can take would still lose it, but the ones who have EDT or DKOK do not actually have the <REGIMENT> keyword, so they cannot lose it.

Funny enough though, the FAQ states that all AM units should replace their <REGIMENT> with BROOD BROTHERS, so what happens when you can't?

 Aenarian wrote:

Drager wrote:
Would that also hold for DKoK and Elysians then? As both they and Tempestus have those keywords locked in as their regiment.

Neither DKOK nor EDT are explicitly regiments (although we all know that this is how they are probably intended to be considered). The units with <REGIMENT> you can take would still lose it, but the ones who have EDT or DKOK do not actually have the <REGIMENT> keyword, so they cannot lose it.

Funny enough though, the FAQ states that all AM units should replace their <REGIMENT> with BROOD BROTHERS, so what happens when you can't?

From the IA book:

There are a number of Astra Militarum datasheets that can be used
by the Death Korps of Krieg – presented in the box on the left.
Those they can use replace the <REGIMENT> keyword on their
datasheet in all instances with DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG. If an
Astra Militarum unit does not appear on the list, it cannot be from
the DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG, and so cannot have the DEATH
KORPS OF KRIEG Faction keyword.

DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG is in fact a <REGIMENT>, just one with special restrictions (Like SPACE WOLVES or DEATHWATCH).

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:

Drager wrote:
Would that also hold for DKoK and Elysians then? As both they and Tempestus have those keywords locked in as their regiment.

Neither DKOK nor EDT are explicitly regiments (although we all know that this is how they are probably intended to be considered). The units with <REGIMENT> you can take would still lose it, but the ones who have EDT or DKOK do not actually have the <REGIMENT> keyword, so they cannot lose it.

Funny enough though, the FAQ states that all AM units should replace their <REGIMENT> with BROOD BROTHERS, so what happens when you can't?

From the IA book:

There are a number of Astra Militarum datasheets that can be used
by the Death Korps of Krieg – presented in the box on the left.
Those they can use replace the <REGIMENT> keyword on their
datasheet in all instances with DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG. If an
Astra Militarum unit does not appear on the list, it cannot be from
the DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG, and so cannot have the DEATH
KORPS OF KRIEG Faction keyword.

DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG is in fact a <REGIMENT>, just one with special restrictions (Like SPACE WOLVES or DEATHWATCH).

I'm a bit curious about this actually. They are never said to be a regiment, just that you change the <REGIMENT> to DKOK (which I guess would make those specific ones a <REGIMENT>-type one). Are we to assume that this means that DKOK in all instances refers to a <REGIMENT> type of keyword?

 Aenarian wrote:
I'm a bit curious about this actually. They are never said to be a regiment, just that you change the <REGIMENT> to DKOK (which I guess would make those specific ones a <REGIMENT>-type one). Are we to assume that this means that DKOK in all instances refers to a <REGIMENT> type of keyword?

I would consider that on the level of "The game doesn't define what a Dice is" or "The game doesn't permit you to breathe".

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
I'm a bit curious about this actually. They are never said to be a regiment, just that you change the <REGIMENT> to DKOK (which I guess would make those specific ones a <REGIMENT>-type one). Are we to assume that this means that DKOK in all instances refers to a <REGIMENT> type of keyword?

I would consider that on the level of "The game doesn't define what a Dice is" or "The game doesn't permit you to breathe".

Well alright. Anyway, they are told to lose their <REGIMENT> keyword, which they don't have (since most of their units already have their regiment as DKOK). Would <REGIMENT> in this case refer to both the general keyword as well as the 10 specified ones (CADIAN, DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG, STEEL LEGION [although only two of them actually have non-named non-characters units]), or just the <REGIMENT> one, and what would happen then?

Exact text from the FAQ:

Note that when included in an army alongside
a Genestealer Cults Detachment, all Astra
Militarum units should replace their <Regiment>
keyword with Brood Brothers in every instance
on their datasheets. Full rules for using Brood
Brothers detachments will be described in Codex:
Genestealer Cults.

 Aenarian wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
I'm a bit curious about this actually. They are never said to be a regiment, just that you change the <REGIMENT> to DKOK (which I guess would make those specific ones a <REGIMENT>-type one). Are we to assume that this means that DKOK in all instances refers to a <REGIMENT> type of keyword?

I would consider that on the level of "The game doesn't define what a Dice is" or "The game doesn't permit you to breathe".

Well alright. Anyway, they are told to lose their <REGIMENT> keyword, which they don't have (since most of their units already have their regiment as DKOK). Would <REGIMENT> in this case refer to both the general keyword as well as the 10 specified ones (CADIAN, DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG, STEEL LEGION [although only two of them actually have non-named non-characters units]), or just the <REGIMENT> one, and what would happen then?

Exact text from the FAQ:

Note that when included in an army alongside
a Genestealer Cults Detachment, all Astra
Militarum units should replace their <Regiment>
keyword with Brood Brothers in every instance
on their datasheets. Full rules for using Brood
Brothers detachments will be described in Codex:
Genestealer Cults.

It's clear that you can't have Regiments and doctrines with Brood Brothers. If it has DKoK the it has <regiment>.

 Aenarian wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Aenarian wrote:
I'm a bit curious about this actually. They are never said to be a regiment, just that you change the <REGIMENT> to DKOK (which I guess would make those specific ones a <REGIMENT>-type one). Are we to assume that this means that DKOK in all instances refers to a <REGIMENT> type of keyword?

I would consider that on the level of "The game doesn't define what a Dice is" or "The game doesn't permit you to breathe".

Well alright. Anyway, they are told to lose their <REGIMENT> keyword, which they don't have (since most of their units already have their regiment as DKOK). Would <REGIMENT> in this case refer to both the general keyword as well as the 10 specified ones (CADIAN, DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG, STEEL LEGION [although only two of them actually have non-named non-characters units]), or just the <REGIMENT> one, and what would happen then?

Exact text from the FAQ:

Note that when included in an army alongside
a Genestealer Cults Detachment, all Astra
Militarum units should replace their <Regiment>
keyword with Brood Brothers in every instance
on their datasheets. Full rules for using Brood
Brothers detachments will be described in Codex:
Genestealer Cults.

Not sure which FAQ you are looking at, that is not the exact txt.

However, you can only include
one Astra Militarum Detachment (one in which every
unit has the Astra Militarum keyword) in a Battle-
forged army for each Genestealer Cult Detachment
(one in which every unit has the Genestealer Cults
keyword) in that army and every unit in the Astra
Militarum Detachment that has the <Regiment>
keyword must replace it in every instance on its
datasheet with Brood Brothers

Is the exact txt.

Edit- maybe it's a language translation thing.

blaktoof wrote:
Not sure which FAQ you are looking at...

He's looking at the Codex Astra Militarum FAQ v1.0 while you're looking at the Index Xenos 2 FAQ v1.2