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I want to start a discussion about r&h so we can hopefully pressure the powers that be to fix or even better do a complete redo to make them usable or even competitive.

Currently the troops are trash which is the corner stone of the army, the covenents are completely unbalanced ie nurgles is completely useless at best. Most heretic guard players are being forced to use loyalist rules and explain to their opponent what half of the army even is. They need the keywords of their God, so nurgle abilities from allies don't kill them they need fnp or even better their squads regenerate losses or inflict mortal wounds just for being close. Loyalist are meta right now while their chaos counterpart are the worst army in the game bar none. I don't want them to be broken good but I would love to use mine in a tournament some time and not be a joke. It would be good if its taken over by gws but let's see.

What do you all think?

Well, based on the email I got from them this morning regarding a similar topic. There will be a new book(s?) Soon for their stuff.

My question to them was in regards to The Skulltakers legion FYI.

 chimeara wrote:
Well, based on the email I got from them this morning regarding a similar topic. There will be a new book(s?) Soon for their stuff.

My question to them was in regards to The Skulltakers legion FYI.

Praise the emperor ... I mean grand father nurgle. so I'm guessing its still FW or is gws taking it? What can you share without getting in trouble?

It'll be Imperial Armour. So FW.

I actually like the fact that R&H are in the position they are, seriously. I like to play 'fluffy' armies and this bunch of heretical rabble should, overall, be garbage on the tabletop.

However, what I am not too keen on is the fact the Index hasn't officially, to my knowledge, been FAQ'd so references to the Guard Index now refer to the codex. That would help clear a few issues e.g. grinding advance and double tap. Also, the discrepancy between Guard to hit on 4+ would need to be changed so R&H hit on 5+. Please bear in mind that these bods are fanatical/disenfranchised scum who at best are conscripts or glorified PDF.

Unfortunately, at the moment our mantra seems to be 'so...how many malefic lords can I squeeze in this list?' if you want to be remotely competitive. Don't get me wrong, FW do need to do some work on the R&H faction as a whole but I quite like the fact they are bloody useless. Again, more about the fluff for me and the minis.

I really hope they do a reworking of Renegades. I was so close to starting a Chaos army, using mostly renegades with some daemon engines and hellforged walkers as the heavy backbone, but the Renegades options were just so terrible compared to their Imperial Guard equivalents (and it's only gotten 10x worse with the codex release) that if you do anything other than Malefic Lord spam you're crippling yourself.

I doubt I'll bother with Chaos again even if they do release a new renegades codex, as luckily that particular spending spree got stopped by the terrible Renegades index. I can keep my pocket money for my Orks and Eldar.

BUT - if they have said they're re-doing the Chaos imperial armour, then maybe they're re-doing the Xenos one too, which sorely needs some work. Good times.

So, I don't think any amount of pressure is going to make FW release a new list. They move at the pace they are going to move. There is some talk about a FAQ. I would not hold my breath over the next IA book, those take a long time.

That said... are R&H really that bad? I am using them with my BL army right now in detachments that consist of 3 Quad Mortars, 3 Earthshakers and a ton of Malefic Lords. So far they've been very successful.

I see R&H as the artillery component for Chaos Soup armies, with CSMs going in for the assault. Not sure I would want that to change significantly.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
I actually like the fact that R&H are in the position they are, seriously. I like to play 'fluffy' armies and this bunch of heretical rabble should, overall, be garbage on the tabletop.

However, what I am not too keen on is the fact the Index hasn't officially, to my knowledge, been FAQ'd so references to the Guard Index now refer to the codex. That would help clear a few issues e.g. grinding advance and double tap. Also, the discrepancy between Guard to hit on 4+ would need to be changed so R&H hit on 5+. Please bear in mind that these bods are fanatical/disenfranchised scum who at best are conscripts or glorified PDF.

Unfortunately, at the moment our mantra seems to be 'so...how many malefic lords can I squeeze in this list?' if you want to be remotely competitive. Don't get me wrong, FW do need to do some work on the R&H faction as a whole but I quite like the fact they are bloody useless. Again, more about the fluff for me and the minis.

I don't mind them being worse but they should at least be cheaper to make up for it, militia for example are WS bs 5 6+ armour and the same points as regular guardsmen. And thus over pointed for how gak they are. Also the fact that the miss out on their gods key word means that for example nurgle renegades still die to nurgles rot .
Also they lost a lot of customizability from the last end which was also the trait of chaos. And a lot of renegades are traitor guardsmen or have been blessed but their God but not in 8th.