Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi All,

As I am a bit of an army butterfly I have decided to look into my neglected, and unopened, boxes of DE.

Not looking for a tactica of any sort but just wanted a general overview / opinion on how Covens are faring so far - albeit DE only have an Index so hopefully will only get better.

Has anyone had any success with pure Coven lists - I am not competitive, just like the aesthetics of the model.

Thanks in advance.

Haemonculus are good, Wracks are viable but not competitive, everything else is overcosted.

Covens are fairly solid. You want to make sure you've got enough Ravagers to kill tanks, because Talos are not going to be very good at that. Grotesques are no longer the monsters they once were, but are still capable of grinding through enemy lines. Haemonculus is pretty solid as DE HQs go, a Haemie in a coven list is the best HQ we've got.

The biggest problem is Pain Engines, which are bonkers weak and overcosted, and the fact that we lack anti-horde (which is a problem all dark eldar have, poison weapons and whatnot). Bringing some mandrake buddies is not a bad idea.

Aha, in which case I hope the codex addresses that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How is Dr. Rakarth doing these days?

He's the best special character in the codex. Which is..not saying much. rerollable 4++ against almost any weapon is pretty freakin' sweet. Haemonculi are primarily about that toughness aura though, so paying extra points for one that will die even less than the normal one isn't always great. Plus, Ichor Injectors suck, and IIRC rakarth comes with one stock.

The issue with Urien is that, whilst he's certainly pretty tough, he doesn't really do anything. His melee ability is abysmal, his shooting attack is once-per-game and rubbish anyway, and (unlike a regular haemonculus) he can't even bring a Crucible of Malediction.

 vipoid wrote:
The issue with Urien is that, whilst he's certainly pretty tough, he doesn't really do anything. His melee ability is abysmal, his shooting attack is once-per-game and rubbish anyway, and (unlike a regular haemonculus) he can't even bring a Crucible of Malediction.

Right. He doesn't die, like, at all, but he also doesn't do anything because he's stuck with arguably the single crappiest haemonculus melee weapon, the Ichor Injector, which is just "roll one of your dice and fish for sixes!"

Compare that to the Electrocorrosive Whip, i.e. the best weapon, which you should have on every Haemonculus and every Acothyst, and the -2AP and D2 is really helpful for being consistent in taking out enemy character units. It also makes your dude synergize damage profile-wise with Grotesques and Talos engines if you take those, since they'll want to hunt the same 2W elite type units.

The overall biggest issue with Index DE right now is that while almost no units are unusably bad (pretty much only post-nerf Razorwings, Drazar, Lelith, and Bloodbrides) there are a TON of unusably bad weapon options. Almost every weapon option-list for every unit has a single best auto-include configuration.

Talos: Nothing but Cleavers makes sense. For the tail, you have a choice between the one high-rof anti infantry weapon and the other. Whoop dee do.
Tools of Torment: Electrocorrosive 100% of the time, every time. None of the other sixty seven melee weapon options that all do the same thing even come close in terms of effectiveness.
Special Weapons: Blasters always.
Wrack Guns: Why would you take anything but maybe an ossefactor?
Heavy weapons: Lances always.

etc, etc.

 vipoid wrote:
The issue with Urien is that, whilst he's certainly pretty tough, he doesn't really do anything. His melee ability is abysmal, his shooting attack is once-per-game and rubbish anyway, and (unlike a regular haemonculus) he can't even bring a Crucible of Malediction.

Damn. Guess he gets to stay in Commoragh until the codex lands.

Haemonculus are better than him IMO

the_scotsman wrote:
Covens are fairly solid. You want to make sure you've got enough Ravagers to kill tanks, because Talos are not going to be very good at that. Grotesques are no longer the monsters they once were, but are still capable of grinding through enemy lines. Haemonculus is pretty solid as DE HQs go, a Haemie in a coven list is the best HQ we've got.

The biggest problem is Pain Engines, which are bonkers weak and overcosted, and the fact that we lack anti-horde (which is a problem all dark eldar have, poison weapons and whatnot). Bringing some mandrake buddies is not a bad idea.

Quick note; Ravagers can't get the <Coven> keyword, so technically shouldn't be in a pure Coven list. If they could a Haemonculus-supported gunline would be an excellent strategy.

Burnage wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Covens are fairly solid. You want to make sure you've got enough Ravagers to kill tanks, because Talos are not going to be very good at that. Grotesques are no longer the monsters they once were, but are still capable of grinding through enemy lines. Haemonculus is pretty solid as DE HQs go, a Haemie in a coven list is the best HQ we've got.

The biggest problem is Pain Engines, which are bonkers weak and overcosted, and the fact that we lack anti-horde (which is a problem all dark eldar have, poison weapons and whatnot). Bringing some mandrake buddies is not a bad idea.

Quick note; Ravagers can't get the <Coven> keyword, so technically shouldn't be in a pure Coven list. If they could a Haemonculus-supported gunline would be an excellent strategy.

Ah I'm sorry, I had it in my head for some reason that the flyers were Kabal and Wych Cult and Ravagers were Kabal and Coven. They're just Kabal.

Reaper's are <Coven> tho, they are a different Ravager, its a FW version.

So is the Tantalus.

In short, Haemonculi are an excellent HQ, Wrack s are a passable troops choice whilst Grotesques and Talos are rather toothless compared to their 7th ed versions and the Cronos struggles to be a support unit.

 Imateria wrote:
In short, Haemonculi are an excellent passable HQ

Fixed that for you.

Pure coven lists are tough to play. A drukhari/wych cult list with some coven units can be nice though. Nothing exceptional but you can play decently in semi-competitive metas.

Haemonculi, wracks, talos and grots are not that bad, they surely can work. Only wracks are not interesting to me, unless you really want a pure coven list, because all coven units are melee oriented and I prefer kabalites over them in a mixed list.

Since I hate pure shooting lists coven units are always included in my lists, especially grotesques. Sometimes also a unit of 3 talos with an haemy behind them. The cronos is completely useless though.

That is a shame. I always liked the concept behind the Cronos.

Also, in the index are Covens their own separate thing or just mixed in with the rest of the unit entries? Would like to see Covens 'fleshed out' (pardon the pun) but can't see them grtting their own codex.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
That is a shame. I always liked the concept behind the Cronos.

Also, in the index are Covens their own separate thing or just mixed in with the rest of the unit entries? Would like to see Covens 'fleshed out' (pardon the pun) but can't see them grtting their own codex.

Dark Eldar includes units with <Kabal> keyword, <Coven> keyword, and <Wych Cult> keyword. Certain units, like flyers, have "<Kabal>or<Wych Cult>"

It also includes many units with Drukhari keyword and no <keyword>