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I'm hankering to make some Warp Talons. They have always been cool looking on the table and now it seems they can actually perform?
Gotta have the Warptime on them, so a deepstriking Sorcerer would be somewhere in my army. But how best to guarantee that power go off?

Is it better to use them in a 5-man squad, keeping them cheaper, and let other units charge after the Warp Talons negate Overwatch (like Renegade bikers zipping across no-man's land to advance, shoot assault weapons like flamers at somebody, then charge)? Having that done two turns in a row by 2 units of Warp Talons would be pretty fun. Or is it more potent with a big 10-man unit so they can do more damage on the hit?

Which Legion might be better for the Warp Talons though? The Renegade trait is good, though they most likely won't need to advance then charge. Black Legion ones with Abaddon in range would also be good but tough to get him within 6" of Warptiming Talons after a drop.

I was thinking World Eaters for the +1 attack on the charge. They, with Kharn in my red Dreadclaw, and a Blood Slaughterer would make a good Outrider detachment. Of course then they have to be Khorne, which may not be a bad thing with that attack twice Stratagem for Khorne. With the Vets of the Long War, and maybe some Prescience, they could be pretty ferocious!

Thoughts? Tutorials?

Warp talons are sweet but I find just starting them on the board behind Los blocking terrain is more useful than trying to do the whole "with sorcerer, then warp time, then charge". Yes you lose the no overwatch but it's made up for in versatility, and you can warp time something else if you want.

If your going to go warp time on them then I would say chapter tactic doesn't matter too much. I prefer straight up renegades for advance and charge but you could go alpha legion, world eaters, or emporers children, they all add something.

I’m not sure I understand the purpose of Warp Talons as compared to Raptors. Sure, they avoid overwatch, but that seems to be it. Otherwise they’re identical in terms of melee attack output and accuracy, though they lack pistols and other weapon options, but get to reroll on Wounds.

I just don’t get the draw.

True, given good terrain they could be up in people's faces pretty quick, especially with the Renegades. And with a Mark of some sort, and Daemon, they can be buffed quite a bit through those means. Heck, even with Iron Warriors they'd be decent, and I could dub them Iron Butterflies

Rivener wrote:
I’m not sure I understand the purpose of Warp Talons as compared to Raptors. Sure, they avoid overwatch, but that seems to be it. Otherwise they’re identical in terms of melee attack output and accuracy, though they lack pistols and other weapon options, but get to reroll on Wounds.

I just don’t get the draw.

Warp Talons also get a 5+ inv. save for being daemonic.

They make a good shock trooper against heavily armored infantry units versus Raptors. The AP-2 works well with the re-rolls to wound to take a dent out of tougher units - compared to Raptors which can soften their charge target up with shooting, but in combat if they can't make enough wound rolls to force failed saves (especially on tougher units like terminators), they're just going to get bogged down. Assuming the Raptors CAN win combat, the extra -1 to enemy LD would work in their favour.

I guess it's horses for courses - both units have their uses, albeit they're in a similar role, so likely competing for the same points in a non-optimized army.

My thoughts on the alpha strike Overwatch-immunity of Warp Talons is it could be used to really great effect if coupled with simultanteous charges by (for example) infiltrating Alpha Legion Berzerkers and/or Renegade Bikers.

Though either of the latter units could still get in a turn 1 charge, and though I have lost plenty of dudes to Overwatch, it is situational. Some armies just don't have much in the way of Overwatch, so who gives a crap? But in the case that they do, it's handy.

Plus lightning claws! Those are good. As is that Daemon save. Which if Tzeentch, could probably be buffed but stuff, but I haven't looked at Tzeentch in a while.

They move 12+D6 with renegade, Mark of Tzeentch will allow them 4+ invulnerable save with power, and they reroll failed wounds with claws which give - 3 Ap. Have a sorcerer case the power for 4+, warp time for extra move then charge, these guys will destroy terminators, tyrnaid warriors, Marines, anything infantry based eldar practically, you get the point. Just don't get them bogged down by tar pit units.

Issue is they need to be an addition to your force, not the main threat because what ever they wipe will lead to other things shooting at them.

 Malathrim wrote:
My thoughts on the alpha strike Overwatch-immunity of Warp Talons is it could be used to really great effect if coupled with simultanteous charges by (for example) infiltrating Alpha Legion Berzerkers and/or Renegade Bikers.

The only problem with combining their charge with other units is the overwatch can be directed onto the other charging unit instead - the rule states that enemy units cannot fire overwatch against units that arrived by warpflame strike in that same turn. So if you're charging something with nasty overwatch potential (something something flamers) and you want to avoid taking hits on the way in, you wouldn't want to combine your charge with anything else.

 Raichase wrote:

 Malathrim wrote:
My thoughts on the alpha strike Overwatch-immunity of Warp Talons is it could be used to really great effect if coupled with simultanteous charges by (for example) infiltrating Alpha Legion Berzerkers and/or Renegade Bikers.

The only problem with combining their charge with other units is the overwatch can be directed onto the other charging unit instead - the rule states that enemy units cannot fire overwatch against units that arrived by warpflame strike in that same turn. So if you're charging something with nasty overwatch potential (something something flamers) and you want to avoid taking hits on the way in, you wouldn't want to combine your charge with anything else.

The Warp Talons charge first, can't be overwatched, and now the target is locked in combat so he can't fire overwatch anymore. Combining charges like this works fine, that's why people send the Rhino in first.

Chrysis wrote:
The Warp Talons charge first, can't be overwatched, and now the target is locked in combat so he can't fire overwatch anymore. Combining charges like this works fine, that's why people send the Rhino in first.

Thanks for commenting - you've corrected an obvious gap in my rules understanding! The downside to having many editions of experience behind me (including WFB) is that I was under the impression the charge phase worked like the old "Declare Charges" step in WFB - I've been saying "this unit will charge this unit, then this unit will charge this unit" BEFORE rolling the dice and moving. Apologies to anyone I might have mislead, and thanks again for the correction - a closer examination of my rules reveals this to be true. Maybe now I won't die as badly trying to get into close combat!

An all comers assault army is struck with the warp time trick to deal with auto hit weapons. Charging 10 d scythe wraithguard is suicidal without it.

Rivener wrote:
I’m not sure I understand the purpose of Warp Talons as compared to Raptors. Sure, they avoid overwatch, but that seems to be it. Otherwise they’re identical in terms of melee attack output and accuracy, though they lack pistols and other weapon options, but get to reroll on Wounds.

I just don’t get the draw.

Warp Talons get more potential synergy bonuses whereas Raptors can largely operate by themselves, though they're not much more impressive on the melee side.

So basically if you're focusing on a more Daemon element you want Warp Talons. If you're not, give Raptors a try (though I feel bad for anyone that equipped them with Melta Guns or Flamers).