Necrons being immune to psychic powers - viable or not?

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**Dr. Mills**

Just a little thought that popped into my head while reading my friends 7th edition Necron codex.

Since I've discovered (from my friend who is a big Necron fan) that they used tissue units call Pariahs that were their anti psyker choice, until they were removed. Now that the psychic phase is still strong, would it seem imbalanced if all Necron forces were immune to psychic attacks/effects? Seeing as they are just metal, it makes sense per se, but I feel it could be better to just reinstate the pariahs somehow, either through Necron research or some other way.
I'll be the first to admit, Necrons have 2 big weaknesses, psychic and flyers. Both need addressing, but I feel the psychic one is more pressing as flyers are universally easier to hit in 8th.

So what does dakka think?

**Necrosis**

Pariahs were a unit in the Necron Codex but were not Necrons themselves. They were captured humans who had the Pariah gene and turned into Pariah units. They lacked the universal rules that Necrons had (didn't count towards getting phased out and didn't get back up from the dead).

Honestly I would like to see the unit return.

**HuskyWarhammer**

Pariahs were some of my favorite units, not just for the mechanics, but for lore - there was rumor that Necrons embedded the blank gene in humans way back when in order to later harvest them as anti-psyker units - a major tool against their old enemy, the Eldar.

**Marmatag**

I wouldn't mind Necrons having a resistance to smite, specifically.

Something like, Smite deals at most 1 mortal wound to a Necron unit that has "necron chapter tactics."

But some of the best powers in the game are blessings. Necrons need a way to deny blessings, too.

**gnome_idea_what**

It would be nice if Necrons had something to deal with psychic powers, but complete immunity to all powers is insanely powerful and can invalidate entire armies. Do they have any stratagems that can defend against psychic attacks?

**John Prins**

Necrons need some anti-psyker ability, but that doesn't mean immunity to psyker powers. The return of Pariahs might help, but they should have more than one option. Tau have the same problem but they probably won't get anything either, unless they finally get to use some of their psyker allied races that have been lurking in the background.

**ZebioLizard2**

Given that no, every single necron is still able to be affected by psyker powers. Giving every single one the ability to be immune to psychic powers is both completely bonkers.

**Dr. Mills**

gnome_idea_what wrote:
It would be nice if Necrons had something to deal with psychic powers, but complete immunity to all powers is insanely powerful and can invalidate entire armies. Do they have any stratagems that can defend against psychic attacks?

At the moment, no stratagems exist for Necrons to deny psychic powers (that I'm aware of). I agree total immunity could be powerful, but no army should be invalidated by no psychic phase. Even Eldar can and should be able to compete without the need to spam dozens of them.

I just feel that both the Tau and Necrons could be royally shafted in thus edition unless they can have some psyker defense of their own. As has been mentioned, Tau could use some psyker race absorbed into their greater good, but the one unit Necrons have got removed.

Unless they get wargear that can act as a mini pylon like on Cadia, I'm genuinely worried my friends army could be cheesed by psykers with him literally unable to even counter it.

**Yarium**

Make all Necrons Vehicles, even the Infantry. They can be Infantry Vehicles

Instantly become immune to Poison! And some Psychic powers!

**Unit1126PLL**

Maybe you could give a certain necron tombworld the following Special Rule:

"Mephrit Tomb World (or whatever): Anathema Rejection Protocols: The Mephrit tomb world is on the border of the <neato chaos rift thingy here, like the Maelstrom>. As the Mephrit legions march to war in stony silence, skeins of binharic technomancy suffuse and reinforce the barriers of reality around them. Some Imperial scholars suspect it is similar in nature to a Gellar Field. Enemy Psykers within 12" of a Mephrit unit subtract 3 from psychic tests. Additionally, no Psyker within 12" of a Mephrit unit may suffer Perils of the Warp; simply determine if the test is passed or failed based on the roll."

This last bit is actually a buff to most psykers, but is a nerf to Malefic Lords and fluffy too.

**Galas**

Well. If someone uses his psychic powers to send a flying rock towards you, I don't think Necrons could be inmune to that.

Psychic powers are very "subjetive" and open to interpretation. Making some Necron units inmune to psychic powers like SoS is all right and easy to balance, making them all inmune... nah.

**Unit1126PLL**

Galas wrote:
Well. If someone uses his psychic powers to send a flying rock towards you, I don't think Necrons could be inmune to that.

Psychic powers are very "subjetive" and open to interpretation. Making some Necron units inmune to psychic powers like SoS is all right and easy to balance, making them all inmune... nah.

Well you've still got to access the warp to do that right? I can imagine there is a Necron bit of technology somewhere that interferes with warp access.

**NoiseMarine with Tinnitus**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Galas wrote:
Well. If someone uses his psychic powers to send a flying rock towards you, I don't think Necrons could be inmune to that.

Psychic powers are very "subjetive" and open to interpretation. Making some Necron units inmune to psychic powers like SoS is all right and easy to balance, making them all inmune... nah.

Well you've still got to access the warp to do that right? I can imagine there is a Necron bit of technology somewhere that interferes with warp access.

Now if I remember my previous fluff correctly the Necrons had warp dampening fields which could cover a system / certainly one planet. It may have been the tech the Ordo Xenos and whoever the other inquisitor were fighting over in the Inq supplement - but I refuse to read that on my phone again due to GWs obsession with Crapple (tm)

And I am not talking about the Cadian pylons or the other pylons around the galaxy.

**Grimskul**

I think the main way to combat psychic powers for Necrons is to to allow the army more access to things like gloom prisms without being forced to take only tomb spyders. So maybe Crypteks can buy a portable gloom prism as one of their upgrades, bring back Pariahs (or whatever new fluff equivalent) as a unit and certain vehicles (like ghost arks) can also purchase gloom prisms as a way of projecting an anti-psychic bubble versus psykers.

**vipoid**

I think C'tan should be immune, but not normal Necrons.

However, as others have said, they really should have some form of psychic defence.

Same goes for Tau and Dark Eldar (and, no, the latter shouldn't have to rely on taking Eldar psykers).

**Galas**

We Tau don't need more Psychic defense than Hammerheads with the "Sniper" rule in their Heavy Railguns

**pismakron**

1) All factions need some source of psychic defence, including Tau, Deldar and Necron

2) Total immunity is not a good solution.

3) Necron Canoptek Spyders can deny psykers with that gloom thingy. If Spyders were viable it would help, and the gloom thingy should be available to some HQ-dude, like on a Lord or Cryptek.

4) The problem with smite-spam in the meta is mostly due to the low cost of malefic lords and primaris psykers. Raise the point cost of these two models (to 55-60 points), and smite will still be a viable strategy, it will just be less dominating. Another solution would be to give them a warlock-style mini-smite and let their point cost remain. Smite is not overpowered on farseers or swarmlords, because these psykers are pretty expensive.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galas wrote:
We Tau don't need more Psychic defense than Hammerheads with the "Sniper" rule in their Heavy Railguns

Not if your opponent brings a dozen malefic lords/primaris psykers.

**vipoid**

pismakron wrote:

4) The problem with smite-spam in the meta is mostly due to the low cost of malefic lords and primaris psykers. Raise the point cost of these two models (to 55-60 points), and smite will still be a viable strategy, it will just be less dominating. Another solution would be to give them a warlock-style mini-smite and let their point cost remain. Smite is not overpowered on farseers or swarmlords, because these psykers are pretty expensive.

I think if you make them that expensive, you'd really need to let them cast 2 powers per turn.

**kaotkbliss**

I'd like to see some sort of device maybe like an antigrav unit or something that sits on a terminator or dread base that gives all necron/tau units within so many inches immunity to psionics.
I would make it a pretty large area as it would give the opponent something to go after to try and take out.

**pismakron**

vipoid wrote:
pismakron wrote:

4) The problem with smite-spam in the meta is mostly due to the low cost of malefic lords and primaris psykers. Raise the point cost of these two models (to 55-60 points), and smite will still be a viable strategy, it will just be less dominating. Another solution would be to give them a warlock-style mini-smite and let their point cost remain. Smite is not overpowered on farseers or swarmlords, because these psykers are pretty expensive.

I think if you make them that expensive, you'd really need to let them cast 2 powers per turn.

Then their cost should be around 100 points, just like every other two-power psyker in the game.

**vipoid**

pismakron wrote:
Then their cost should be around 100 points, just like every other two-power psyker in the game.

Er, what?

You have heard of Neurothropes, right?

Better toughness than Malific Lords or Primaris Psykers, have Synapse (so effectively a Commissar +10 rolled in), can cast 2 powers per turn, can heal themselves or friendly Zoanthropes whenever they kill models with Smite, can reroll 1s on psychic tests and allow friendly zoanthropes nearby to reroll 1s on psychic tests.

All that for 70pts and yet you want Primaris Psykers and such to be 100pts.

Yeah, no.

**pismakron**

vipoid wrote:
pismakron wrote:
Then their cost should be around 100 points, just like every other two-power psyker in the game.

Er, what?

You have heard of Neurothropes, right?

Better toughness than Malific Lords or Primaris Psykers, have Synapse (so effectively a Commissar +10 rolled in), can cast 2 powers per turn, can heal themselves or friendly Zoanthropes whenever they kill models with Smite, can reroll 1s on psychic tests and allow friendly zoanthropes nearby to reroll 1s on psychic tests.

All that for 70pts and yet you want Primaris Psykers and such to be 100pts.

Yeah, no.

I don't want Primaris psykers to be 100 pts. I want them to be around 60 points or have a nerfed smite like warlocks. I don't have access to the Tyranid codex, so I wouldn't know how good Neurothropes are. But all other two-power psykers like Librarians, Sorceres, Farseers, Shadowseers etc are 100 points or more.

**vipoid**

pismakron wrote:

I don't want Primaris psykers to be 100 pts. I want them to be around 60 points or have a nerfed smite like warlocks. I don't have access to the Tyranid codex, so I wouldn't know how good Neurothropes are. But all other two-power psykers like Librarians, Sorceres, Farseers, Shadowseers etc are 100 points or more.

- Shadowseers have WS/BS 2+, 5 wounds, a 4++, ignore terrain, a -1 to-hit aura, a gun that inflicts mortal wounds and a pseudo-force weapon.

- A Farseer has 5 wounds, a 4++, can reroll dice for one psychic test each turn, can ignore Mortal Wounds on a 5+

- I don't know much about Sorcerers and Librarians at the moment, but at the very least they have S4 T4 W5 and a 3+ save.

A Primaris Psyker is S3 T3, W3, has basically no save of either kind and has just 1 power.

Even if you let them cast 2 powers per turn, there's just no way they're worth as much as a 70pt Neurothrope - let alone one of the above.

You want a bare-bones psyker to pay as much as ones with better stats, gear and abilities, yet without giving them any of those things. And I'm sorry but that's just ludicrous.

**pismakron**

vipoid wrote:
pismakron wrote:

I don't want Primaris psykers to be 100 pts. I want them to be around 60 points or have a nerfed smite like warlocks. I don't have access to the Tyranid codex, so I wouldn't know how good Neurothropes are. But all other two-power psykers like Librarians, Sorceres, Farseers, Shadowseers etc are 100 points or more.

- Shadowseers have WS/BS 2+, 5 wounds, a 4++, ignore terrain, a -1 to-hit aura, a gun that inflicts mortal wounds and a pseudo-force weapon.

- A Farseer has 5 wounds, a 4++, can reroll dice for one psychic test each turn, can ignore Mortal Wounds on a 5+

- I don't know much about Sorcerers and Librarians at the moment, but at the very least they have S4 T4 W5 and a 3+ save.

A Primaris Psyker is S3 T3, W3, has basically no save of either kind and has just 1 power.

Even if you let them cast 2 powers per turn, there's just no way they're worth as much as a 70pt Neurothrope - let alone one of the above.

You want a bare-bones psyker to pay as much as ones with better stats, gear and abilities, yet without giving them any of those things. And I'm sorry but that's just ludicrous.

A shadowseer is more than 130 points without wargear, and knows only one power if I remember correctly. But I don't want Primaris Psykers to cost that much. I want them to cost around 60 points. Like a weirdboy. Or have a weak smite, like a warlock. If you want a psyker that can cast two powers, he should be priced like other psykers that can cast two powers, not like other one-power psykers.

**Galas**

Pricing psikers based only in the number of powers they can cast a turn ignoring the rest of the package doesn't makes any sense.

**Lance845**

If a psionic blast can tear into a imperial knight there is no reason it wouldnt tear into warriors.

**NurglesR0T**

No doubt Necrons will have a couple stratagems that will grant debuffs similar to what nids have, such as "psychic test on 1d6 only" or maybe even something like "perils on any double" etc.

Maybe even one of the <DYNASTY> traits could be "a unit with this <DYNASTY> can deny once power per turn as if they were a psyker and add +1 to the roll"

**pismakron**

Galas wrote:
Pricing psikers based only in the number of powers they can cast a turn ignoring the rest of the package doesn't makes any sense.

Perhaps not, but is there anyone who buys primaris psykers for their glorious statline? They are a source of psychic powers and smite, nothing more.

I agree that this is not the case with, say, hive tyrants or demon lords. But they are also a LOT more expensive.

**Earth127**

Rumouir has it there is a nerf coming to smite spam in chapter approved.

Some things should be on a model that has a minimul cost but doesn't make that cost itself worthwhile.

A psykler for 10-20 points with full smite is to cheap but just being a psyker doesn't mean astropath are worth 50 points all of a sudden.

**vipoid**

pismakron wrote:

A shadowseer is more than 130 points without wargear, and knows only one power if I remember correctly.

It knows one plus smite but can cast 2 per turn.

Also, this is pre-Codex. Just saying.

pismakron wrote:
But I don't want Primaris Psykers to cost that much. I want them to cost around 60 points. Like a weirdboy.

But that makes them just 10pts less than a Malanthrope for:
- A worse statline
- Half the casting ability
- No Fearless aura
- No life-steal ability
- No rerolling 1s on psychic tests aura

If Primaris Psykers go up to 60pts, then they need to be able to cast 2 powers per turn at a bare minimum.

Otherwise you're making them abysmally bad.

pismakron wrote:
Or have a weak smite, like a warlock.

And if you leave them at the same price but make their smite weak, then there's no reason whatsoever to take them over Astropaths.

pismakron wrote:
If you want a psyker that can cast two powers, he should be priced like other psykers that can cast two powers, not like other one-power psykers.

How many times? The Neurothrope can cast 2 powers per turn, in addition to bringing several other excellent abilities to the table. And it's just 70pts.

60pts for a Primaris Psyker who can cast 2 powers per turn would be perfectly reasonable in comparison. Perhaps even overcosted, given how much extra stuff the Neurothrope brings.

Earth127 wrote:
Rumouir has it there is a nerf coming to smite spam in chapter approved.

Any idea what form this nerf might take?