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If a model can see another model, it can shoot it. Therefor if I had a unit of 10 cultists spread an inch apart there would be nothing stopping the terminators behind them from being shot at, correct?

They don’t seem to be as good for screening this edition. Tell me I’m wrong!

 SolidOakie wrote:
If a model can see another model, it can shoot it. Therefor if I had a unit of 10 cultists spread an inch apart there would be nothing stopping the terminators behind them from being shot at, correct?

They don’t seem to be as good for screening this edition. Tell me I’m wrong!

No, you can't screen effectively for gunfire with infantry. That seems to be GW's intent. You can use vehicles like Rhinos. . . but then you might as well be in the rhinos.

Screens are mostly to protect from being assaulted, which prevents you from shooting in most cases. Cultists still do that just fine.

They can still be shot but it'll still give a cover save, stop deepstriking and protect you from charges.

 kastelen wrote:
They can still be shot but it'll still give a cover save, stop deepstriking and protect you from charges.

A screen will not grant a cover-save.

pismakron wrote:

 kastelen wrote:
They can still be shot but it'll still give a cover save, stop deepstriking and protect you from charges.

A screen will not grant a cover-save.

Oh, well feth.

Dang when I read the cover save line my heart fluttered. It’s cool, I have 70 of them, plenty of bodies for other uses thank you

 SolidOakie wrote:
If a model can see another model, it can shoot it. Therefor if I had a unit of 10 cultists spread an inch apart there would be nothing stopping the terminators behind them from being shot at, correct?

They don’t seem to be as good for screening this edition. Tell me I’m wrong!

There was nothing preventing the terminators from being shot at in previous editions.

 SolidOakie wrote:
Dang when I read the cover save line my heart fluttered. It’s cool, I have 70 of them, plenty of bodies for other uses thank you

Cultists are pretty good on their own in this edition, and screening against charges and deepstrike is very important. So don't throw out your cultists yet.

Cultists are pretty ideal for a cheap troop slot, and as they are cheap they are awesome for creating space where your opponent can't deep strike and screening you units from charges.

Yea cultists main role for me now is literally conga line during deployment to push back the inevitable first turn deep striking death units people bring.

Bare in mind, this doesn't save Termies...But all your HQ options? cultists will wall those for days.

Since a lot of units have the ability to first turn charge this addition, plus with all the smites dishing out mortal wounds to the closest model, cheap screeners are still very good.


Also in some tournament settings they are allowing the cover save bonus for models 50% obscured from the shooter even if they arent inside ruins.

Cultists are very efficient screeners actually.

I love cultists.
Cheap. With iron warrior strategem they stick around for ever.
Supply bodies for the pox walker horde. They rock.

Also, the biggest boon to cultists in the codex is the "Tide of Traitors". Don't ignore that if you're planning to run alot of cultists.

Cultists:

1) Dirt cheap troop option (helps you build detachments and gain additional CPs)
2) Spread them out and prevent opponents from deepstriking closer to things that matter.
3) Use "Tide of Traitors" on large cultists units which have been whittled down. 30-40 fresh Cultists showing up on someone's back line is always a minor concern.
4) I'm not sure how many Stratagems impact cultists but remember, every buff or stratagem (or aura affect) is exponentially increased by the number of models. A unit of 40-Cultists will benefit far more from a re-roll buff than five Chaos Space Marines. Now, that being said I'm not 100% sure how many abilities can affect them.

All of this being said, I only have 10...maybe it's time to paint my other 10 or buy some more.

Yes, cultists can still screen valuable units.

If screens didn't work, there wouldn't have been an outcry about Conscripts.



If you need to get your CQC units into battle, though, use Transports.

Cultists are good. I agree with all the "screening" statements and the other stuff mentioned on this thread. Also Cultists are a lot better now than previously just because anything can be wounded on a 6+. I recently had a unit of 20 cultists put two wounds on a Knight in CC, without any buffs nearby. Now I would not count on killing Knight with them, but those two wounds helped me finish it off the next turn with Smite. In 3rd-7th the Knight would have been invincible against the cultists. Cultists are the king of "pot shots" that if you get lucky can put a wound or two on things, which can add up. I highly recommend them in this edition.

 Elbows wrote:
Also, the biggest boon to cultists in the codex is the "Tide of Traitors". Don't ignore that if you're planning to run alot of cultists.

Cultists:

1) Dirt cheap troop option (helps you build detachments and gain additional CPs)
2) Spread them out and prevent opponents from deepstriking closer to things that matter.
3) Use "Tide of Traitors" on large cultists units which have been whittled down. 30-40 fresh Cultists showing up on someone's back line is always a minor concern.
4) I'm not sure how many Stratagems impact cultists but remember, every buff or stratagem (or aura affect) is exponentially increased by the number of models. A unit of 40-Cultists will benefit far more from a re-roll buff than five Chaos Space Marines. Now, that being said I'm not 100% sure how many abilities can affect them.

All of this being said, I only have 10...maybe it's time to paint my other 10 or buy some more.

I mean, they have the Heretic Astartes Infantry keywords, so they benefit from a lot of them, really. Veterans of the Long War can be great if you have a clump of them, because the sheer number of shots or attacks they can pump out can threaten even bigger stuff when you're wounding on a 5+ instead of a 6+.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 SolidOakie wrote:
If a model can see another model, it can shoot it. Therefor if I had a unit of 10 cultists spread an inch apart there would be nothing stopping the terminators behind them from being shot at, correct?

They don’t seem to be as good for screening this edition. Tell me I’m wrong!

There was nothing preventing the terminators from being shot at in previous editions.

Not true, some earlier editions required a Ld test to not shoot the closest unit, and others allowed target choice only by characters and I think heavy weapons that could shoot at a vehicle over infantry. Something like that anyways, it's been like 2 decades.since 2nd.

As pointed out above, cheap screening units are an "essential" building block of competitive Astra Militarum strategy. Has been since forever, but the current rules set has made this immensely powerful.

You probably know that models prevent units from Deep Striking / Outflanking if they're within 9". If you put you "last" model from a unit, within 15" of another "last" model, and you then do that again with a 3rd unit, you block off most of a board quarter with them.

By keeping them relatively close, your opponent has to wipe out, to a man, 2 units. Doesn't take long, but it will probably take at least two turns. On the third turn, maybe, but by then you're into close combat with whatever you want. Plus, you're fighting on a single front. You know where your opponent has to come at you from. This is a fundamental change from previous editions, where any 6" circle was a potential drop zone. Now, every model exerts an 18" diameter no-shenanigans zone. 3 units, properly spaced, can initially control a zone roughly 30" in diameter. Nobody deep striking in, to mess up your arty. Nobody dropping in to get the first charge. Nobody dropping near your CC monsters of doom, and rapid-firing plasma into them before they can act.

8th edition is about damage output, moreso than previous editions. 7th edition, for example, was a game of mobility. 5th edition was a game of durability. Hypothetically, Alpha Striking is the most direct way to victory. Cripple your opponent's army, before they can cripple you.

The most direct way to ensure you get the alpha strike, is to have board control. Screening units prevent close-range [quick] damage from being stacked on your valuable units, while allowing them to either set up for a charge, or continue firing their weaponry.

The most direct way to ensure you have board control, is through MSU. Or in the case of cultists, Many Cheap Units. The more staying power, the better. Hence Conscripts are considered very good, because their durability per point is high. Having units of your own that can deep strike / outflank further denies your opponent board control.

Hence, cheap Conscripts flood your deployment zone, ensuring board control. Cheap Scions flood everything else, ensuring board control. IG either gets the Alpha Strike [Artillery shooting over screens] or Beta Strikes at 95% capacity [losing screening units is positive piece trading] with most if not all of their long range artillery.

Cheap screening units are the cornerstone of this positive piece trading strategy. Victory through attrition. Arguably, cultists can't achieve this role as effectively as AM can, but they have alternative strategies to bombing the hell out of the opposition as well, and generally favours advancing [towards central objectives] rather than staying back [with potentially no objectives].

This is a bit of a cat and mouse game, made very difficult for other players by virtue of the indirect fire that Guard is capable of mounting. Hypothetically, although you're playing an aggressive [Chaos] army, you want to play a long game where you're only exposed for a short while. Only so long as to capture objectives at the end of the game, assuming you're playing Eternal War style missions. Add in some disruption to their objective holding, and that's the ticket.

Much easier said than done, of course, but Chaos can hypothetically do it.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 SolidOakie wrote:
If a model can see another model, it can shoot it. Therefor if I had a unit of 10 cultists spread an inch apart there would be nothing stopping the terminators behind them from being shot at, correct?

They don’t seem to be as good for screening this edition. Tell me I’m wrong!

There was nothing preventing the terminators from being shot at in previous editions.

Not true, some earlier editions required a Ld test to not shoot the closest unit, and others allowed target choice only by characters and I think heavy weapons that could shoot at a vehicle over infantry. Something like that anyways, it's been like 2 decades.since 2nd.

None of which had anything to do with screening, just with one unit being closer or further away. It has been possible to shoot between models in a squad in every edition IIRC.