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Well, guys, it looks like all the complaining people have done to GW paid off for them:

Matched Play: If you are playing a matched play game, a unit from your army cannot make a Soulburst action if a friendly unit has already made the same Soulburst action during your turn. In addition, units from your army cannot perform any Soulburst actions during your opponent’s turn.

So we're capped to 1 soulburst shot on our turn, 1 charge, etc. and only our turn (unless I'm misreading it and it means just per death/Soulburst?). Comparing it to the faction powers of all of the other factions, I think we're gonna see a noted decline in Ynnari tournament play.

I had always thought soulburst should have been activated on a 2+ personally, but I'll take this Nerf instead!

It really isn't that bad. You get one round of free shooting if you kill an enemy unit nearby, or you get to assault, fight, etc. It stops a silly cascade of continued actions through successful unit wipeouts. Definitely a big nerf, but still not entirely useless, especially when combined with some of the weapons Eldar get! Not to mention that you have access to Craftworld strategems too. I'm a Ynnari player and I endorse this announcement!

Playing Eldar and not being called cheesy is a good thing, gets really boring to hear same old crap from people.

That's a pretty big nerf, I think ynnari just turned worthless.

 bullyboy wrote:
Playing Eldar and not being called cheesy is a good thing, gets really boring to hear same old crap from people.

I think that's the problem. The rule isn't that bad - hell, and it's easily one of the most flavorful - and not nearly as powerful as people melodramatically complain, but it feels bad to play against and people don't like it. It's more a PR move than a balance one.

Its not like ynari are winning every tournament, while there at it nerf imperial/chaos soup/guillman/celestine but im guessing that wont happen. Seems like such an overnerf to something that wasnt really needed, maybe add 2/3+ to activate instead.

pilchard8 wrote:
Its not like ynari are winning every tournament, while there at it nerf imperial/chaos soup/guillman/celestine but im guessing that wont happen. Seems like such an overnerf to something that wasnt really needed, maybe add 2/3+ to activate instead.

You mean like how overnerfing Commissars did nothing to Conscripts?

I want to be sympathetic, but really it's for Matched Play. Did you think you'd be able to continually spam the same Soulburst power time and time again when Psykers can't use the same Powers and other similar things(Canticles, Orders, etc) are either set to 1 per turn or 1 per unit?

I have a feeling that when we see the Ynnari again, Strength From Death will be quite different.

I mean, you can call it severe, but at the same time, it's also severe fielding multiple squads of reapers or wraithlords and soulburst chaining for double the shots in 1 turn.

Each unit firing twice is strictly superior to the buff Guilliman provides, for reference. Is a 0 point Guilliman balanced?

Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

The sad thing is that this will do nothing to stop CWE/ Ynnari mixed list, which was the problem

And it will actually encourage Reaper Ynnari lists. If you can only do 1 shooting Soulburst, you may as well make sure it's a powerful one. So take 10 Ynnari Reapers and plant Yvraine next to them to cast Word of the Phoenix so they can shoot twice.

It does sadly kill Ynnari for me personally, as I was only adding a Ynnari Spearhead with 2 WG units and a Fire Dragon unit. If I can only do 1 shooting Soulburst per turn and can never Soulburst in the opponent's turn, than there is no point in having 3 extremely shoot ranged shooting units as Ynnari in my list.

-

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

They do 0 orders per turn unless they pay points for them! This was free!

Guard is the overpowered cheeseball faction that gets its turn in the limelight. They absolutely need sweeping nerfs but it won't happen. So just move on.

The OTHER factions should be balanced, this was a welcome change.

Ynnari needed a nerf to stop being the eldar autopick, but this is too much.

 Marmatag wrote:
Guard is the overpowered cheeseball faction that gets its turn in the limelight. They absolutely need sweeping nerfs but it won't happen. So just move on.

The OTHER factions should be balanced, this was a welcome change.

You can tell that they need sweeping nerfs by all the statistical analysis that's been done and posted on this very forum, in which guard are certainly Top 3 but are generally worse than Chaos as well as being less represented.

But sure, keep harping. Those of us who use data and make informed decisions will be confident regardless of your ill-informed whining.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ynnari needed a nerf to stop being the eldar autopick, but this is too much.

This ability is still far better than what most other factions get.

Do you think Grey Knights would trade Draigo's reroll bubble for the ability to proc strength from death?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

They do 0 orders per turn unless they pay points for them! This was free!

And yet Guard-centric lists still somehow keep winning tournaments. Oh, woe is the guard, they're so underpowered.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

They do 0 orders per turn unless they pay points for them! This was free!

And yet Guard-centric lists still somehow keep winning tournaments. Oh, woe is the guard, they're so underpowered.

I don't think anyone said they were underpowered!

 Marmatag wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ynnari needed a nerf to stop being the eldar autopick, but this is too much.

This ability is still far better than what most other factions get.

Do you think Grey Knights would trade Draigo's reroll bubble for the ability to proc strength from death?

You can argue both. For example, I can think this nerf was too harsh *and* that GK need a buff. Both are true. Just because one faction was hit too hard doesn't dissolve or rationalize the underpoweredness of other factions.

So now that SfD is nerfed, can we stop saying Dire Avengers are fine at 17ppm, because they're the cheapest SfD option?

(/sarcasm. But yes, that was an argument made.)

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

Once a unit is affected by an Order, it can't be affected by another.

It's functionally the same thing when it comes down to it--because who is going to issue "Fix Bayonets" to a Heavy Weapons Squad in the back with nobody near them?

You can issue "Take Aim" to multiple units of Cadian Mortars. There's a difference between "unit X gets only one buff Y" versus "buff Y can only be issued once."

 Kanluwen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

Once a unit is affected by an Order, it can't be affected by another.

It's functionally the same thing when it comes down to it--because who is going to issue "Fix Bayonets" to a Heavy Weapons Squad in the back with nobody near them?

It's not even close to functionally the same - every unit can have the same order cast on it. Only limit is how many orders you can cast - which is pretty easy to have for every unit in your army. Also are you sure you can't cast 2 orders on the same unit? Did that recently change?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ynnari needed a nerf to stop being the eldar autopick, but this is too much.

So they have still the best faction-hability in the game, and this is too much?

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

They do 0 orders per turn unless they pay points for them! This was free!

And yet Guard-centric lists still somehow keep winning tournaments. Oh, woe is the guard, they're so underpowered.

the point wasnt that Guard was underpowered, its that the parallel between orders and SfD doesn't hold up the way it was presented. Orders are something an IG player has to pay for and make an investment in, SfD does not require such an investment.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

Once a unit is affected by an Order, it can't be affected by another.

It's functionally the same thing when it comes down to it--because who is going to issue "Fix Bayonets" to a Heavy Weapons Squad in the back with nobody near them?

It's not even close to functionally the same - every unit can have the same order cast on it. Only limit is how many orders you can cast - which is pretty easy to have for every unit in your army. Also are you sure you can't cast 2 orders on the same unit? Did that recently change?

A unit may only be affected by one order per turn per p.85 of the IG codex.

The only exception (IIRC) is the Laurels of Command relic that allows a unit to be given a second order on a D6 roll of 4+.

What is the source for this?

 MagicJuggler wrote:
You can issue "Take Aim" to multiple units of Cadian Mortars. There's a difference between "unit X gets only one buff Y" versus "buff Y can only be issued once."

Yes, to two units per commander, limited by hq. And people with space marine captains are issuing "Take Aim" to every space marine unit within range simply by existing. The takeaway is that it seems that not all buffs are created equal, and they need to be considered and limited as appropriate to their capabilities.

Unless you're arguing that two units per 30 points rerolling 1s to hit is somehow on par with a free armywide rule that lets you have any unit act entirely all over again in whatever way is most convenient even if the action is out of phase.

Holy damn, that's a hell of a nerf.

I mean, soulburst always seemed strong, but I guess not anymore.

I might have limited it to once per phase, not turn.

*edit* after re-reading it, it looks they effectively did limit it to once per phase - you can only use one of the soulburst actions per turn. Since there are, as I recall, 4 soulburst actions, you could soulburst up to 4 times per turn. Which isn't bad.

But it's not I shot and killed you, so I'll shoot and kill you, then I'll shoot and kill you, in an endless cascade.

Its a pretty hard smack of the nerf bat, no denying....

... but I still think the ability is very useful and pretty strong which I think may indicate why it has been nerfed.


The no using during opponents turns makes the game speed up no end, allows the other player to play his turn without constant interruptions and doesn't have to second guess all his target choices - overall making playing against Ynnari a much more pleasant experience.

No taking the same action twice is certainly worse but you can still have a unit of reapers shoot twice, still move twice to get into charge range with some harlies, still attack twice with a wraithknight you just can't do all things with all units now.

Overall I think it still compares quite favourably with battlefocus and power from pain and you have the added benefit of a larger unit selection, the craftworld bonuses may help edge them ahead but its alot closer of a choice now whereas before the Ynnari were just plain better.

Good job GW, keep it up, a few points adjustments for guard and fixing forgeworld units is hopefully next on the agenda :-)

(for the record I don't play eldar of any flavour but am all for a well balanced game for what it is worth)

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Let me know when Guard can only issue each Order once per turn...

...go on, I'll wait.

Once a unit is affected by an Order, it can't be affected by another.

It's functionally the same thing when it comes down to it--because who is going to issue "Fix Bayonets" to a Heavy Weapons Squad in the back with nobody near them?

It's not even close to functionally the same - every unit can have the same order cast on it. Only limit is how many orders you can cast - which is pretty easy to have for every unit in your army. Also are you sure you can't cast 2 orders on the same unit? Did that recently change?

The only way to put 2 Orders on the same unit is the Laurels of Command Relic. On a 4+ you get to put a second Order(which cannot be the same Order, whether in Matched, Narrative, or Open Play) on the unit you issued an Order to. You have to resolve the effect of the first Order however(so if you did the rally from Fall Back one, you have to rally from Falling Back first and then you can FRFSRF or whatever).
There's also a Cadian warlord trait that allows for you to, on a 4+, apply the same issued Order to a second unit. It does stack with the Laurels of Command so a single Officer can potentially double Order up to 2 units at one time.

Also, yeah. It really is close to "functionally the same". You need to factor in:
A) Officer must be of same Regiment(Tempestor Primes can't issue Orders to anyone other than Scions, for example) and be present. HQ Officer can do 2x Orders per turn, others are 1x.
and
B) Officer must be in Order range (6" without a Vox-Caster, 18" with Vox-Caster and then the Officer has to be within 3" of a unit with a Vox-Caster to get that 18" range)

Prior to Laurels of Command, you could never apply two Orders to the same unit. Once a unit was targeted by an Order(even back when you had to roll LD), it was considered Ordered--even if the Order failed to take effect. Conscripts still have that part on them in fact with their "Raw Recruits" rule.