Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I purchased the Betrayal at Calth box recently as part of my re-entry to 40k (haven't played since early 4th), and I'm wondering what if anything people do with their Cataphractii. I love the look of the models, and I'm deciding how best I might fit them into a list. I get the impression that terminators in general aren't especially competitive, but does anyone enjoy using these awesome minis? How do you make them work, and what loadouts do you use? What can they synergize well with in a marine army?

You do the same thing you would do with normal terminators.

Deep strike shoot a soft target and charge a hard target with those power/chain fists.

4++ is a tough nut to crack at times.

They got much better with the point decrease, but are fairly slow in general. Id say tie them up into something that wont try to get away and have plenty of targets to play with, Thankfully storm/combi bolters are amazing and cheap and spit out A LOT of shots at 12 inches. They also do well with punching tanks to death, esp if you can clear out blocking units with your 20+ bolter shots beforehand

Deeply discussed in the Deathguard tactica!

Well, with powerfists getting another price reduction they might be more useful, but given how horde/infantry focused this edition is I'd go combi bolter+lightning claw. Shoot things when you drop in, and then again next turn, followed by a hopefully successful charge, and maybe the armor will be tough enough to survive that long.

I don't think this is relevant to you, but you can also get nice mileage as blightlords if you are interested in playing DG but aren't big on the look of the new line. I believe someone mentioned doing this is in one of the DG threads, as it's fairly wysiwyg if you use claws/chainfists to represent the blades on the blightlords. Again, not relevant if you only play loyalist marines but given it is the other unit that officially uses said armor I thought I'd mention it. Plus they are significantly better than the loyalist version, so if you really want to use them to the point of building an army around them....

I use them as Chaos Terminators with LC because the normal Chaos Terminator box doesn't give you enough LC. (It doesn't give you any!)

Lightning claw and a storm bolter was actually what I was thinking, but I wondered whether the "traditional" power fist made more sense. The lightning claw has the benefit of being cheaper and more likely to land a hit, but obviously doesn't hit as hard.

The list I've been toying with has them alongside a unit of VVs with lightning claws and a couple storm shields as well as a full unit of sternguard with their bolters to use the strategem. I'm playing Raven Guard, so I was thinking that depending on what I'm up against potentially deploying all 3 with SftS, or else deep striking either/both of the termies and VVs. Also deep striking a captain near the sternguard (potentially my warlord with storm of fire) as well as a chaplain, to make the assault units a nightmare. Plus it makes my opponent make tough choices: either focus on their own flank/backfield, or target my heavier-hitters in the form of some dreadnoughts, a stormraven, and a devastator squad with ablative wounds. I don't really know if this makes any sense at all though

I'll run them in friendly lists with my Iron Hands with storm bolters and lightning claws. Deepstrike them. They put out 20 bolter shots and are great in CC and are quite survivable.

That said, more competitive lists have the tools to deal with such units so you have to use them in a support capacity and don't think you can leave them alone to wreck face.

Does anyone else have any thoughts re: lightning claw(s) vs. power fist (or chainfist, I suppose)?

Different tools for different tasks. Powerfists become Strength 8 which gives you the crucial 3+ to wound against the overwhelming majority of Toughness 7 vehicles (dreads, tanks, transports). However you suffer the penalty to hit.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Deeply discussed in the Deathguard tactica!

To be fair the Blightlords are a LOT different from normal Cataphractii terminators. They are much tougher, much better with plasma (if you take a Terminator lord with them) but are a lot worse at melee vs. T6+ unless you buff them with Blades of Putrefaction and take a Flail of Corruption with them. They're not going to do much of anything vs. tanks and big monsters in melee if you don't make proper preparations.

Anyway, yes, Cataphractii termies are tough cookies but SLOW. You better position them impeccably when deepstriking or they're going to be sitting ducks, unable to do much of anything. Even when advancing their movement will be only 6" on average (compared to normal termies who get 8.5" on average and Tartaros termies who reach 9.5") so keep that in mind.

 Porphyrius wrote:
Does anyone else have any thoughts re: lightning claw(s) vs. power fist (or chainfist, I suppose)?

Lightning claws are a bit better for a few reasons. First that they are better against what you usually will end up in combat with, which is infantry. It's really easy to keep tanks or MC away from them if the enemy knows what they are doing. Secondly that PF lose value against invulnerable saves and further hit reductions, and even against toughness 7 don't have much better chance to wound due to rerolls (5/9 vs 6/9). The powerfist isn't even overwhelmingly better than the LC against many MC/vehicles, only marginally better. Which makes it very hard to justify.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Porphyrius wrote:
Does anyone else have any thoughts re: lightning claw(s) vs. power fist (or chainfist, I suppose)?

Lightning claws are a bit better for a few reasons. First that they are better against what you usually will end up in combat with, which is infantry. It's really easy to keep tanks or MC away from them if the enemy knows what they are doing. Secondly that PF lose value against invulnerable saves and further hit reductions, and even against toughness 7 don't have much better chance to wound due to rerolls (5/9 vs 6/9). The powerfist isn't even overwhelmingly better than the LC against many MC/vehicles, only marginally better. Which makes it very hard to justify.

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of analysis I was hoping for!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m considering using Strike from the Shadows to help mitigate their slow speed. Ideally I’ll be able to start them in cover right around 9” so a charge should be possible, at least to clear out a screening unit to pave the way for some VVs.