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I'd bet the assault weapons still suffer -1 to hit, as the core rules clearly say that. It would be a really OP combo, getting a 4+ invul after advancing, shooting plasmas at no penalty with the Weapons of the dark age and sammys rerols and then charging. It just sounds wrong

Well if we are talking about regular plasma guns on regular ravenwing bike squad then we can only have 3 plasma guns, the combi for sergeant and 2 special weapon options. It is absolutely fine that in this case squad doesn't suffer any penalty since this is only 6 shots at rapid fire range, whereas a 10 man black knight squad may fire 20 shots and with the sams rerolls they might not even loose one model when supercharging. Thats ridicilous amount of damage and thats why the penalty must surely be applied, you probably wont think of supercharging given that youll blow yourself up on both 1 and 2s thats good limiting and a balancing factor to avoid black knight spam

Plus the startagem doesn't change the weapon type, so you can simply think of it as getting a round of shooting after advancing for all weapons and nothing more

So in case of Black knights theres just no point of using speed of the raven unless you want to charge after advancing. Even without the supercharge 10 knight may deliver up to 40 damage with the weapons of the dark age

10 man squad knight squad running around with the 4+ from jink, sams rerols, darkshorud and the talonmaster sounds pretty nasty even with -1 to hit penalty, simply dont supercharge and blow everyone away from range.

I bet the bike spam will be a thing for DA

Thats probably true, i didn't take the points cost into account, but 60 potential damage from one squad is just terrifying.

Anyways, the weapon still remains an assault weapon so its logical that you receive the penalty after advancing, its the same as with moving heavy weapons.

I think the strategem means you can use all the weapons as usual with all the modifiers applied in accordance with the weapon type

It doesnt say the unit can shoot any kind of weapon type. The unit advanced, you can only fire assault weapons, and charge this turn.

That kinda limits it to be used on black knights and command bikes or standard bikes with meltas... what else is there with assault weapons?

p5freak wrote:

Timur wrote:

It doesnt say the unit can shoot any kind of weapon type. The unit advanced, you can only fire assault weapons, and charge this turn.

That kinda limits it to be used on black knights and command bikes or standard bikes with meltas... what else is there with assault weapons?

There are a lot of assault weapons : Inceptors have assault bolters and plasma exterminators (no idea if DA can use them), flamers are assault, astartes grenade launcher, astartes shotgun, carbine bolter, deathwind launcher, flamestormfists, wrist grenade launcher, mastercrafted storm bolt rifle, plasma cutter, hellbasters have assault plasma guns.

Yes, but the stragem is for ravenwing only, in ravenwing the only units that may take assault weapons are the bikes. I think if GW wanted to limit usage of this stratagem only to bikes than they would do it like with the termies sratagem by saying any "ravenwing bike unit", or something more specific regarding which weapons may be used. Since it is not limited to bikes only, means their intent was that dark talons and landspeeders would also be able to take advantage of this strategem which means it allows you to fire all weapons

Otherwise whats the point of using this strat on a landspeeder vengeance to shoot after advancing if doesn't even have an assault weapon and cant be used to charge since there is no point in that?Surely it must allow to shoot all weapons if its a ravenwing wide stratagem

p5freak wrote:

The exact wording of the stratagem does not give you permission to fire any kind of weapon type when advancing. Anyway, we are not going to convince each other, so lets wait until its FAQed.

Well, just think of it this way, the stratagem is ravenwing wide, so it seems GW wanted players to use on a landspeeder vengeance after advancing, or on a Dark Talon, but what would be the point in that if it would only allow them to charge?
Allowing to shoot all weapons and charge makes much more sense, that way we get the 4+ invul for advancing and get to shoot all those weapons on such units like landspeeder vengeance

White scars have a similar strategem called "Born in the sadle",
Use this Stratagem when a WHITE SCARS BIKER unit
Advances. That unit can still shoot and charge this turn.

Heres is a link from gw saying that you can advance,shoot and charge and no mention that it is limited to assault weapons only:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/chapter-focus-white-scars-july18gw-homepage-post-3/

Space marine bikes(white scar bikes) don't have assault weapons at all, other than the special weapons that 2 bikers may take: meltagun and flamer are the only weapons that are assault and you may only have up to 3 such weapons in a squad of 8 bikes.

So if what you are saying is true, than this strategem should have been written like so:"Use this Stratagem when a WHITE SCARS BIKER unit
Advances. That unit can still shoot his assault weapons and charge this turn." But whats the point of mentioning assault weapons if you can shoot them anyway?

Note that this scars strategem was not faqed in space marines codex because it is absolutely clear that you may fire all weapons, any other interpretation makes no sense.

If you look at Astra militarum codex you will notice that GW does provide more details regarding abilities that trigger after advancing when they are important. For example tallarn swift as the wind doctrine, they do mention additional details regarding which weapons you are allowed to shoot with after advancing and how they should behave:"..can advance and still shoot any weapon type (except heavy weapons)..".

Since there are no additional restrictions in "Speed of the raven" or the "Born in the saddle" its clear that we are allowed to shoot all weapons, the second one wasn't even faqed, probably because it doesn't cause any confusion with most players.

If you read carefully you will notice that special permission is only needed when only certain weapons are allowed to be used after advancing, since this info was not included in speed of the raven there is 0 reason say that we can only shoot assault weapons

Just for the info, core rules may be changed by stratagems and special abilities, like the UM chapter tactic that allows to shoot after falling back. In faqs its written all over that certain core rules apply only if not stated otherwise.

Movement section of the core rules says you cannot shoot after advancing, there is no mention of assault weapons or anything. Assault weapon special rule applies on top of this core movement rule.

Stratagems says you can shoot after advancing

So the stratagem is the winner in this case