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Alpha Legion - Forward Operatives (1CP):
Use this stratagem when you set up an ALPHA LEGION INFANTRY unit. You can set up the unit in concealment instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the beginning of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, the unit emerges from its hiding place - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9 inches away from any enemy models.

So I take it we can use Auspex Scan vs units set up via Forward Operatives?


edit - Sweet baby Jesus, the size of that pic!

.. I didn't think so, but looking at it, yes?
I'm sure there was a reason for no. Hmm.

It's a clear yes for me. They arrive from reserves (concealment) and they set up on the battlefied.

Same. I certainly would expect to be able to do it in a game, and would need to hear a pretty solid justification why it's not possible.

I suspect the "No" line of thinking is that Forward Operatives takes place before any player's game turn, so it's not even a player turn when it happens. All that would suggest to me though is that you can do Auspex Scan multiple times, as it won't suffer from the "one user per phase" limitation on stratagems.

It's a No and this has been covered before. Because in order to count as being "tactical reserves" they must be set-up mid game. Which is anywhere between the first players movement phase, and the end of the game.

Forward Operatives lets you set up before the first turn begins so it is not "mid-game". Therefor they are not arriving as "reinforcements" because it is not mid-game, and Auspex Scan only lets you shoot at units arriving as reinforcements.

That was it. Reinforcements is described as "mid-turn"
So forward operatives doesn't apply.

Wagguy80 wrote:
It's a No and this has been covered before. Because in order to count as being "tactical reserves" they must be set-up mid game. Which is anywhere between the first players movement phase, and the end of the game.

Source? Because I've found no support for your this claim of 'movement phase'. Ive found no 'mid-game' definition at all.

At the beginning of the first battle round but before the first turn begins, the unit emerges from its hiding place

It's after deployment, and the first battle round has begun. Are we in mid-game now? Who knows.

Yeah that's some made up definitions right there. There's no official definition of when the game "begins" as far as I know, and
it would be equally reasonable to assume it starts when the rolloff happens to determine who will place the first objective.

Or perhaps even before that, when you roll for the mission. That's as much of the game start as the player's first turn.

I wouldn't use a player definition of what "mid game" is or is not affect whether you can use a strategem.

Your army is on the board and you're infiltrating stuff. The game is most definitely on by then!

The reinforcement rule doesn't say mid game, it says mid turn.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The reinforcement rule doesn't say mid game, it says mid turn.

Dude it's screenshot is in the OP. Says mid game.

Unless you mean a different piece of text?

The reinforcements rule, not the tactical reserves rule.
Core rules movement phase sidebar.

For matched play it's RAW a yes.

You have to include the tactical reserves rule as well as the reinforcements rule.

The tactical reserves rule makes anything not setup during deployment reinforcements, it doesn't care about when it comes in.
Claiming they are not reinforcements is not following the tactical resrves rule.

Forward operatives and similar rules are valid targets for auspex scan and similar rules becuase the units are being placed as reinforcements in matched play(see tactical reserves rule) and that is the trigger for auspex scan.

Auspex scan refers to reinforcements. Not tactical reserves.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Auspex scan refers to reinforcements. Not tactical reserves.

Tactical reserves is a matched play rule, and within it's text anything not setup during deployment is reinforcements.

So yes you are correct, auspex scan calls out reinforcements which tactical reserves modifies for matched play.

In matched play RAW forward operatives and like Strategems are reinforcements due to tactical reserves rule.

Tactical reserves is a matched play restriction. It doesn't modify the reinforcement rule. It refers to it, with a slightly different definition, so I can see the confusion.

It calls out any unit setup somewhere other than the table during deployment is reinforcements.

It also limits the amount of units that can be set up in reinforcements.

If you don't think those are modifications/additions to the core reinforcements rules I don't see anything productive in discussing the issue with you :(

The first paragraph is a description, not a ruling. I don't see how it can possibly be read at such.
None of the other restrictions have any relevance to Auspex Scan.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The first paragraph is a description, not a ruling. I don't see how it can possibly be read at such.
None of the other restrictions have any relevance to Auspex Scan.

I think you mean first sentence, and it describes which units are reinforcements- a rule.

I am sorry you dislike they are reinforcements in matched play but those are the rules as written and no matter how much you would like to say the written rules aren't rules- it doesn't change the fact that they are.

Forward operatives are not setup on the table during deployment, making them reinforcements rules as written in every matched play game.

Have fun playing, painting, modeling.

I haven't started a preference either way, let's just read the rules correctly. And saying " many units can do this" is just a description.

Are the units setup on the table during deployment?

If the answer is yes, then they are not reinforcements in matched play.

If the answer is no, then they are reinforcements in matched play.

That is what the rules say when apply tactical reserves, a rule for matched play. There is no other reading of the rule other than to say it's not a rule which is as silly as saying reinforcements is not a rule.

Be it a description or not, it is there to clear confusion about what can be considered a reinforcement, and in there it clarifies that anything not deployed during deployment is a reinforcement.

So, if it is indeed a description then it applies to all types of games, open and narrative included.
If it is a rule then it applies only to matched play.

In any case in matched play auspex triggers.