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Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




Here's a variant on my last list. Didn't get any replies then, but one never knows!
As before, the rules are 3 Detachments at most, no detachment can be repeated and 2,000 points current rulings and FAQs.
The Veterans and Company Commander with the Plasma pistol use the 'Tallarn' Stratagem to pop up with the stormtroopers, and the 2 man SM Veterans use the Raven Guard Stratagem to provide a 20inch deepstrike denial bubble. [Would of really liked a second unit of those guys, amazing value.]

Detachment 1 - MT Battalion

HQ - Tempestus Prime, Command Rod, Laurels of Command
HQ - Tempestus Prime, Bolt Pistol

Troops - 10 Scions with 4 Plasmaguns and 1 Plasma Pistol
Troops - 10 Scions with 4 Plasmaguns and 1 Plasma Pistol
Troops - 5 Scions With 4 Hellguns and 1 Hellpistol

Elites - Scion Command Squad - 1 Grenade Launcher, Medic, Standard and Hellgun.

Points - 499

Detachment 2 - Raven Guard, Spearhead

HQ - Captain [Possibly with Chapter Master Upgrade depending on if I'm facing Ravenguard/Ranger Eldar.] Stormbolter and Powerfist
HQ - Lt with Special Issue Boltgun and Thunderhammer. [And Relic of 2+/3++ save.]

Heavy Support - 5 Devastators with 1 Lascannon and Cherub.
Heavy Support - 5 Devastators with 1 Lascannon and Cherub.
Heavy Support - 5 Devastators with 1 Lascannon and Cherub.

Elites - Company Veterans * 2 with Boltgun and Chainsword

Points - 508

Detachment 3 - Imperium [The Guard units are all Tallarn, presently, but it'd be much more gamey to split them up further.] Brigade

HQ - Company Commander, Plasma Pistol
HQ - Company Commander, Warlord, [Grand Stratagist]
HQ - Inquisitor - Deamonhammer, Psyker
HQ -Inquistor - Psyker

Elites - Callidus Assassin
Elites - 10 Veterans with 3 Plasmaguns and Plasma Pistol
Elites - 10 Veterans with 2 Plasmaguns and Boltgun

Troops - 10 Guardsmen
Troops - 10 Guardsmen
Troops - 10 Guardsmen
Troops - 10 Guardsmen with Autocannon and Boltgun
Troops - 10 Guardsmen with Autocannon and Boltgun
Troops - 5 Battlesisters with Stormbolter

Heavy Support - Heavy Weapons teams with Mortar
Heavy Support - Heavy Weapons teams with Mortar
Heavy Support - Heavy Weapons teams with Mortar

Fast Attack - 5 Rough Riders
Fast Attack - 5 Rough Riders
Fast Attack - 5 Rough Riders

Points - 993
Command points 9 + 3 + 3 + 1 = 16
2 Spent on relics = 14, and then 4 used on stratagems during deployment, which will all be recovered on a 5+, and then a further 2 spent on a preliminary bombardment, again recovered on a 5+


Thoughts?

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Which event are you going to and what missions are they using? so I can give better advice
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




It's the May London GT, the largest one in Europe. The details are a bit sketchy, 'Modified Malestrom missions' is all the pack says. So the ability to move is key, but there's no clear indication how they're changing them.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




Hopeful Bump!

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




The London GT ok, it’ll be using ETC missions, they’re the ones that I play at the tournaments I attend. Sadly I’m not going myself due to tickets being released around Christmas time.

Your list seems like you’re trying to get as many CPs as possible and reducing unit effectiveness. When doing that you need to find the right balance, and I think you’ve got too many CPs, and too many ineffective units.

Starting from the top of the list:

The scion battalion, I know you want to keep it pure scions, but it doesn’t make much difference if you’ve got the trait or not, cos typically you’ll be using the re-roll 1s order on them. You want them in squads of 5 with 2 plasma guns, 10 man squads become difficult to deep strike in and hit the unit they want. The command squad should have 4 plasma guns in and no other upgrades. The tempestor primes issue 2 orders per turn, which means you can order all scion units to re roll hit rolls of 1. Start with a vanguard detachment with:
2 tempestor primes With command rods
2 x 5 scions, 2 plasma guns in each
2 command squads with 4 plasma guns in each
Culexus assassin for anti psyker protection (he’s in the same detachment but it doesn’t mean he runs around the scions btw)

The raven Guard spearhead, it achieves nothing, one lascannon in each dev squad isn’t much anti tank even the cherubs. 2 veterans will not hold an entire army of deep striking, you’ll block off one area that’s it. You’ve got too much equipment on the HQs, they want to sit back and buff the devs not be in combat. I would take something like:
Captain no upgrades (maybe chapter master if you have spare points)
Lieutenant no upgrades
3 x 5 devs, 2 lascannons and a cherub in each

The brigade detachment is a bit of a mess. The one detachment with lots of troops in to get obsec and you put non-guard stuff in there. I would make it Cadian for a start. I’ll go through each slot individually for the brigade.

HQs, the inquisitors don’t add much, the +1 LD isn’t worth it for 10 man squads of guardsmen. If you need psykers then the guard primaris psykers are cheaper. The company commander shouldn’t have a plasma pistol as he should be sat at the back and not close enough to the enemy to shoot that plasma pistol. I would take 3 company commanders, 1 as the warlord with the grand strategist and another will the Kurov’s Aquila relic. And you can still do 6 orders per turn.

Elites, the callidus assassin doesn’t do much and the veterans are over pointed. I would take 3 astropaths with laspistols for cheap psychic support. One with psychic barrier, one with mental fortitude and one with nightshroud. Great to buff up your guardsmen squads that are sat on objectives making them harder to shift.

Troops, you’ve got 3 guardsmen squads with no upgrades I assume as a meat shield, 2 more squads with some upgrades which will still be used a meat shield, and 5 random sisters of battle. I would take 6 infantry squads each with a lascannon, to sit as the frontline infantry. The reason to take lascannons is because it’ll be more long range anti tank, and by spreading out the anti tank guns over multiple squads (6 infantry squads and 3 dev squads) your opponent will have a hard time killing off all of it as it’s spread out, and can’t just simply focus fire.

Fast attack, rough riders are weak and die too easily drop them and take 3 scout sentinels with multi lasers instead. Spread these scout sentinels out across your deployment, and then before the game starts they get a free movement, they’ll push forward and create a bubble of protection to force enemy deep strikers to arrive further back, does the same job as what your veterans done but better.

Heavy support, 3 x 3 mortars is solid, and will compliment your army well, especially with the changes I’ve suggested.

So with the above suggestions your list should look like:

Company commander, grand strategist (warlord)
Company commander, kurovs aquilla (relic)
Company commander

Astropath, nightshroud
Astropath, mental fortitude
Astropath, psychic barrier

Infantry squad, lascannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Infantry squad, lascannon
Infantry squad, lascannon

Scout sentinel, multi laser
Scout sentinel, multi laser
Scout sentinel, multi laser

3 heavy weapons teams, 3 mortars
3 heavy weapons teams, 3 mortars
3 heavy weapons teams, 3 mortars

Captain, bolt pistol + chainsword
Lieutenant, bolt pistol + chainsword
5 devs, 2 lascannons + cherub
5 devs, 2 lascannons + cherub
5 devs, 2 lascannons + cherub

Tempestor prime, chainsword + command rod
Tempestor prime, chainsword + command rod
5 scions, 2 plasma guns
5 scions, 2 plasma guns
Tempestus command squad, 4 plasma guns
Tempestus command squad, 4 plasma guns
Culexus Assassin

This comes to 1767pts, so you’ve got room to add in a few more bits, some suggestions:
- more heavy weapons teams squads in the brigade with mortars
- Add another scion squad in and change that vanguard detachment into a battalion
- A 4th squad of devs perhaps with the same loadout as the other 3 squads
- More psychic support if you want
So you’ve still got plenty of CPs and you don’t use any pre game either. FYI, the grand strategist warlord trait doesn’t work on CPs used pre game that’s how it’s been ruled when playing using ETC rules, but with the above alterations it doesn’t matter anymore.

The above list won’t win you the event I can tell you that, but will help you to compete, and have fun. You shouldn’t be curb stomped every game. A few more pieces of advice, practice the missions before the event get used to how they work and how the scoring works, so you’re not panicking during the event not knowing how the missions work. Don’t set your army list in stone yet, it’s 5 months until the event, so things will likely change, but stick to guard and practice with them, that’ll help you to play well also. Finally, just go to have fun, it’ll be a great event and a brilliant experience. I’ll hopefully be picking up a ticket at a later date, if there’s no tickets left after Xmas, as there’s usually drop outs anyway.

Sorry if some of the comments seemed harsh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/21 11:32:57


 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Unless I've overlooked something, your army lacks anti-tank.
I think the SM detachment is not a must-have. How about a Baneblade?

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




I agree in regards to the Raven Guard detachment. 3 Lascannons is 3 Lascannons, but for the same price you can get something like 9 via Guard.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Oh yes that’s the other thing I forgot to suggest, scrap the entire raven Guard spearhead and take a shadowsword super heavy instead
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Kdash wrote:
I agree in regards to the Raven Guard detachment. 3 Lascannons is 3 Lascannons, but for the same price you can get something like 9 via Guard.

Indeed.

In a universal environment like a GT (we had one in Germany each year before the GW HQ in Düsseldorf dropped - very sad), you need, say, about 40% anti-tank/-monster, 40% anti-infantry, and 20% agile units.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




I'm on lunch presently so not stocked with a ton of time to reply but I'll do my best to address some of the points raised. [And thanks everyone for the feedback!]

The Ravenguard lascannons, [As far as far as I can math it] significantly superior to the Guard lascannons. One squad of Guardsmen with a lascannon runs at 60ish points, and puts out a single shot with a 50% miss ratio, at about 60 points. The Ravenguard lascannons are 95pts each, which, granted is 50% more expensive. However for that extra handful of points, we're getting a 2+ armour save for being in cover, and a vital -1 to hit from shooting. [The opponent will be more than 12 inches away because of the screening guardsmen units.] As far as I math it, that actually makes them significantly more durable than their AM Countparts. In addition their lascannon hits on 2's [Don't forget they're Devastators], re-rolling ones. On turn one, it's 2 shots because of the Cherub. That means that little group is putting out 6 lascannon shots, hitting on 2's, re-rolling 1's, wounding on 3's, re-rolling ones, with spare command points for the odd 2 if needs be. On Average rolls, they'll destroy a landraider all by themselves. [Much more likely if I spare the re-roll for the damage and not a failed to wound.]
300 points of guard lascannons in infantry squads gets me 5 shots. 2.5 hits, so maybe 2 successful wounds, vs 5 from the Ravenguard.
Should the Ravenguard all be Alphastruck off the board, [Unlikely] the Captain still has the capacity to deepstrike and charge elsewhere on the board if he's not supporting them.

Incidentally, if I go up against an infantry hoard [And remember to give them stormbolters] The sergeants can each put out 8 bolter shots hitting on 2's on round one, as I inflitrate their Dev Squads close up to my opponent. The Guardsmen squads lascannons become much less useful vs hoards and the lasguns themselves are decoration.


I'm not 100% sold on it yet, but that's why I've got months to playtest it. It also reduces the number of bodies I've got on the table, which is important, because too many models means too many games lost to time.

The Scions are in a pure Batallion for 2 reasons. 1, that gives them Objective secured, and as my main force is fairly static, having most of my mobile element with ObSec is useful. Secondly, re-rolling 1's to hit for my two main squads significantly increases the number of chances to roll 6's for extra shots.
Having them in two groups of ten is likewise important for the Laurels of Command, the two groups of 10 are much more likely to have access to re-roll 1's to hit _and_ re-roll all failed wounds. That's a huge boost in damage output which makes them viable tank hunts, as well as elite infantry clearers. Dropped in cover they can instead hang on with a 2+ armour save.

Giving the Command Squad plasmaguns would be nice, but 1, it's unlikely I'll have enough space to drop more than 20 scions in rapidfire range of my prefered target. 2, they have zero durability or spare wounds to lose, 3, I'd need another order and thus more points investment to keep them solid, and 4, I ran out of points.

I'll grant you Primaris Psykers are better per points at doing the Psyker thing, but I'm not sold that they're not worth their points as Psykers that also provide a passive leadership buff. It's a gunline, so they're not running up and smiting, they're standing back and denying and a leadership aura there helps keep the guardsmen in line.
The Deamonhammer is an obvious waste of points, but I'm fond of the model, and between him, the Captain, and the LT, it gives me a suprising amount of nasty close combat hits to react to outflanking tanks and elite infantry in my lines, or closing Tyranid gribbly things.

So in summary,

AT is provided by 6 Lascannon shots turn one, that almost auto hit, and close to auto wound, 2 cheap autocannons [Eh... Might lose these.] And 13 plasmaguns, all of which re-roll 1s, 8 of which re-roll failed wounds most times. It's enough to take out roughly two landraiders, give or take.

I do agree the two veterans arn't enough anti deepstrike, I really need 4, and I did consider cutting the second Inquisitor for an Astropath to free up the points there.
I'd disagree the scout Sentinals are better at it, the Veterans are significantly cheaper, and can appear anywhere on the board, not one move from my deployment zone, and as they have a 2 inch coherency, actually make a slightly bigger bubble than one sentinal base. What's the advantage to the Sentinals here?

The rough riders are of course, just to fill the must have fast attack slots, and add distraction to my deepstriking scions. They might tie up a shooty unit with a risky charge. [Statistically one of them should get in.] Otherwise they'll have to be shot of the board or they will do it next turn. Firepower going at them is firepower not shooting scions or the weaker veteran squads.
[The officer with the Plasmapistol is escorting the Veterans in to give them re-rolls. He's useful for dealing the last two wounds to something they failed to kill, but can fire non overcharged and just frag a Space Marine otherwise, 5 points is a solid investment for a 13pt kill, even shooting other guardsmen it almost makes it's points back.]


I'm very not sold on the second lascannon. The second one hit's on 3's, not 2's, and costs you ablative wounds. I'd sooner scrap 3 lascannons and a handful of extra points for a 4th Dev Squad and a Cherb, for 2 more shots hitting on 2's, with extra bolters and bodies. Sure they only get 1 shot from turn 2 onwards, but isn't conventional wisdom the game is pretty much decided by then anyway? Particularly without Ravenguard protection, 2 Lascannons, a Sarg, and 2 bodies is going to get alphastruck right off the board.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

As a thought experiment, how would this list fare against an AM list with Baneblade (30 S5 AP-1 shots, 4 lascannons), 4 LRBTs, 3x30 Conscripts, 2x5 Ratlings, and whatnot.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Why post your list up asking for criticism in a forum mainly for critique of lists, you were pretty much begging for criticism on this thread and the last thread with all the bumps, we then give you constructive criticism and you throw it back in our face. FYI I haven’t seen a land raider in the meta in a very long time.
   
Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Find 30pts to give your rough riders 6 plasma guns. It changes them from pointless tax units to decent offensive outflanking commandos. This is a no-brainer.

Your space marine castle could easily be done better by more guard in my opinion. This cadian vanguard detachment has more lascannon wounds/turn vs heavy armour, is tougher to take down, has FAR more anti infantry firepower, and also nets you 15 BS3+ sniper shots to hunt a few characters. Your current configuaration is paying about 400pts for three lascannon shots per turn. I don't care how good those shots are, it's not worth it! The commanders

Company commander 30pts
Company commander 30pts

Veteran squad with lascannon + 3 sniper rifles + bolter on sergeant 87pts
Veteran squad with lascannon + 3 sniper rifles + bolter on sergeant 87pts
Veteran squad with lascannon + 3 sniper rifles + bolter on sergeant 87pts
Veteran squad with lascannon + 3 sniper rifles + bolter on sergeant 87pts

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/21 15:40:50


Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights  
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




I'm actually super happy with the Feedback, so I didn't want to make anyone feel particularly offended by my response. Outlining each side's point of view is a good way to ensure no-ones missing anything obvious and introducing new things.

I'm looking to experiment with this list vs the typical Baneblade and friends list, I'm pretty optmistic, I can survive an alphastrike a lot better than they can, unless it's an outflanking Tallarn Baneblade, but it would be a pretty close fight.

The suggestion to try to find some points to wack some cheap BS4 plasmaguns on the rough riders is an awesome one, I'll just have to see what acceptable models I can convert up in the next few months. Finding the orginal rough rider models has been hard enough!

The Cadian vanguard is an interesting suggestion, orders + Cadian meaning it re-rolls all misses means it's four lascannons are scoring 4 hits, vs the Ravenguards 6 on turn 1, and 3 on turn 2. It's got a ton more wounds, but they're a lot more fragile wounds. It can't inflitrate if they need too, and provides a lot less close combat support, and the extra model count and dice slow down games, but the extra nine sniper rifles are pretty on value. I might have to try a few games with each varient and see how it goes.

My main hesitation is needing those 6 lascannon hits turn 1. What happens on turn 2 is a lot less important this edition as most games have been decided by then so it's all about maximising that alphastrike in a compact and reliable form.

Will be sure to update with some Battlereports against some of the more competative current metalists post Christmas!

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






How are you getting six on turn one? Does the cherub let you shoot twice for one turn? Sorry I wasn't aware of that!

Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights  
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




Yep. Cherub allows you to fire one model in the squad twice. The Sergeant allows one model to hit on 2+ for the rest of the phase, so each lascannon is firing twice on turn 1, hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's from the Captain.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Your theory with 6 lascannon shots (early in the game) might work in practice.
If they all hit, they wound a LRBT on 3+ and four of them would wound it, killing it on average.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




 wuestenfux wrote:
Your theory with 6 lascannon shots (early in the game) might work in practice.
If they all hit, they wound a LRBT on 3+ and four of them would wound it, killing it on average.


Don't forget they re-roll 1's to wound, and I can save a command point for re-rolling a poor damage roll.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Your theory with 6 lascannon shots (early in the game) might work in practice.
If they all hit, they wound a LRBT on 3+ and four of them would wound it, killing it on average.


Don't forget they re-roll 1's to wound, and I can save a command point for re-rolling a poor damage roll.

Good to know.
With 6 hits, you could take on 2 LRBTs if rerolls to would are made. This could pop (almost) 2 LRBTs per turn. But the enemy might have 4 or more.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




And that's what the two teams of Scions are for. 9 shots counting the Pistol, hitting on 3's, re-rolling 1's to hit, and 50% of the time re-rolling all failed wounds, with an extra shot on 6's to hit.

9 Shots, 6 hits, + 1 extra shot, re-rolling a 1 and another shot, about 8 hits, wounding on 4's, - 8 wounds, two squads, 16 wounds that's another LRBT down, being relatively generous with my rolls.

Still got some spare autocannons, krak grenades, and another 5 plasma guns and a plasma pistol from the Veteran to throw at the next one. Alpha striking 3.5 LRBT's, and trashing some infantry with the Sister Squad, Mortars,and stray lasgun fire, and charging whatever's left with the rough riders is what this list is about.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




How many GTs have attended prior to this one?
   
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




This is my first.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Right ok, I’m just gonna tell you straight, the current meta doesn’t not contain land raiders, it does not contain leman russes. The current meta is as follows and expect 4 games out of 5 to be against something like in this list:
- Magnus + Mortarion + Renegade Knight surrounded by 50 brims with another 40 in summoning points
- Dark reaper spam 35-40 reapers backed up with 15 rangers to stop deep strikers and 20 swooping hawks for objective grabbing and general harassment
- Imperium Soup character spam which will be slightly altered after the beta rule comes into full effect but will still be present in one form or another as people adapt
- Grey Knight power army spam, about 50 bodies all with deep strike and 24” range guns all with re rolls and 24” smite, it’ll come down and kill half your army easily
- Heck even my tyranids list with 7 deep striking Hive tyrants each with 3+/4++/6+++ 12w and 24 str6 shots each will crush your list.

Your 2 pitiful company veterans are not enough to stop deep strikers, especially in something like the long board edge deployment (dawn of war). You’re also assuming you’ll be able to deep strike those scions in and yet no one will know how to deep strike past 2 models. I’ll drop you a hint, everyone who goes to these events knows how to bubble wrap properly and stop deep strikers. When planning you need to assume that every player knows what they’re doing and they won’t make a mistake, cos typically everyone there does know what they’re doing.
   
Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Not going to argue with most of that, but leman russes are definitely on the tournament scene. In 12 games across three tournaments in 8th I've only lost two games and they were both to well built leman russ lists.

They did both bubble wrap well - couldn't get my scions to them til the bottom of turn 2

Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights  
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Sorry let me re phrase that, leman russes and imperial Guard are generally struggling at the moment, they’re in the meta but are declining. Because of the changes from index to Codex + the faq + chapter approved points increases + potential smite changes, it’s really hit guard. Now Guard did need balancing and a bit of a nerf, but not as much as this. I went to the element games 40k grand slam last month, and that’s when the true potential of reaper spam was revealed. I’ll do a breakdown of the top 20 lists below, worth noting that the event was rammed with top players:
1) Dark Reaper Spam
2) Imperium character Soup with 8 buffed TH/SS Termies
3) Grey Knights dreadknights and power armour deep strike force
4) Reaper Spam
5) Magnus + Mortarion + FW exalted Lord of change + Brims
6) Reaper Spam
7) Death Guard 200 model zombie horde which adds more models as the game progresses (I don’t fully know what it done)
8) 20 reapers, 30 swooping hawks, rangers and 2 plasma obliteratora for the reapers to hide in
9) Imperium character Soup with 2 FW fire raptors
10) Magnus + Mortarion + Renegade Knight + brims
11) Imperial Guard With 90 conscripts, loads primaris psykers, 4 taurox primes, 10 ratlings, 2 squads of 5 Melta scions, 3 basilisks, celestine and 2 culexus assassins
12) Dark Reaper and shadow spectre spam
13) Eldar brigade with a mixture of units
14) Grey Knight power armour shooty Spam
15) Tau commander and drone spam (8 or 9 commanders and 50 to 60 drones)
16) Mech Eldar 3 serpent, 2 fire prisms, 1 hemlock, 10 reapers, we fire dragons
17) 6 flyrants, 2 x 19 stealers and 2 lictors (myself)
18) Reaper Spam
19) Chaos Soup
20) Reaper Spam

In my last round I played against a pure guard army with the usual character mix, a LRBT tank commander, 75 conscripts, 5 scions 2 plasma guns, 5 scions 2 hot shot volley guns, 2 basilisks, 2 wyverns, 2 taurox primes, 10 ratlings, and a shadowsword super heavy. It was diagonal deployment, playing the scouting. He filled up his deployment zone pretty much (as I can imagine you will). I position some ripper swarms units such that he was limited on where he could infiltrate his ratlings. He couldn’t infiltrate them properly to be effective. I got turn 1 deepnstrick in all 6 flyrants and keept my stealers and lictors in reserve. Turn 1 I killed 50+ conscripts, all 10 ratlings and 1 taurox prime. His return fire killed my warlord flyrant and that’s it. Even he had insufficient anti tank/monster fire power vs me due to my 4++. I then shot down all but 5 conscripts and then started charging tanks, and forcing them to fall back and unable to shoot from turn 2 onwards. I pinned him in his own deployment zone all game. The game ended at the end of turn 5 as we had 90 seconds left on the round. He had about 5 or 6 models left not including the shadowsword. He’d killed all 6 flyrants and most of a squad of stealers. However he was still in his deployment zone and I was on 4 out of 6 objectives to his one. I won the round 20-0. He struggled vs 6 flyrants and I struggle vs tanks. I now have 7 flyrants and no stealers or lictors, and you have pure infantry, I would have a field day vs your list.
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




You think? I'd love to give you a game. My regular play test partner is a heavy Monster Tyranid Army, focusing on deep strikes and mobility, and while the games can be tough, particularly when they get first turn, it's by no means an auto lose. I'm more than happy for you to sink points into low unit count models I can focus fire on on Squad of Scions on average does - 7/8 wounds of a Flyrant alone, saves taken into account, and the Inquisitor, Captain, and Lt, can put a suprising amount of damage into a Flyrant on the charge, regularly killing ones that have been wounded.

I'm far from saying, 'Ha, usux, I flatten ur list.' It'd be a tough game, but I think I'm a long way from being roflstomped, too.


The line up of Armies in the current meta is super useful, so thanks for that, but I do have to be careful. This GT is in May, I've got nearly 5 months to playtest, and we've got the mysterious balence patch in may. While it makes sense for me to design a good TAC list with innovative new ideas, designing something specifically to fight the current meta will render it useless come May when the Meta is slightly different.

Also don't get the wrong idea with the Land Raider/LRBT notes. I'm not specifically expecting to face them, they're just a good benchmark for shooting at T8, 3+ save 10+ wound models. I might as well have said Knights or Shadowswords.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

- Grey Knight power army spam, about 50 bodies all with deep strike and 24” range guns all with re rolls and 24” smite, it’ll come down and kill half your army easily

How is deep striking handled in your book?
I thought half of the army must be deployed regularly on the board?

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




It’s not pure GKs, so a battalion of GKs with draigo, brother captain, 3 x 10 strikes, 2 x 10 interceptors, 3 x 5 purgation Marines, taking maximum psilencers and using the strategy to give 2 purgation squads deep strike with 3rd squad taking gate of infinity. Then take an inquisition vanguard detachment, with 2 inquisitors and 6 acolytes. 9 units deployed and 9 units deep striking.
   
 
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