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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




I keep seeing lists with rangers, and I keep hearing about how rangers work for people, But I have had 0 luck with mine and with primaris with stalker rifles in the game, (I play against mostly sm not by choice) rangers are heavily outshot, not only that but rangers are only tanky in cover, which means any deepstrike coul basically end them, I have no idea why anyone would take them. So im asking, what makes them appealing to you? and why do you take them? in the games ive used them they get relativley ignored, and still manage to kill only 1 or 2 models per game.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, I think in a tournament setting, Rangers are basically used to keep the enemy at bay.
Three small Ranger units could do this. They give you a Bataillon and so 3 CPs. That’s it.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Rangers aren't for damage output, they are our other second cheapest troop option and are the more durable option.

I forgive you for not getting this from the tactica thread, the OP of that decided to forgo a unit summary in the OP like most other tactica threads and decided to push his own crap website instead

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Made in us
Liberated Grot Land Raida




rangers are not a good choice but they're 100% the least bad choice when it comes to eldar troops.

Min size, no upgrades, they fill troop slots fast, provide some utility in the form of a few mortal wounds here and there, and they die really slowly to gunlines. The major thing thats so good about eldar is that they have a solid counter to the two big tournament list archetypes: Reserve alpha strike and chaff filled gunline.

With Alaitoc (our only chapter tactic) we dont die to list 2 and with reapers+farseer we nuke list 1.
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think in a tournament setting, Rangers are basically used to keep the enemy at bay.
Three small Ranger units could do this. They give you a Bataillon and so 3 CPs. That’s it.


You say to keep them at bay but in my experience so far, (Admittedly very little so theres plenty I dont know) theres no incentive against rushing towards rangers? and the rangers cant fire through my own troops so they dont really provide backup. Although from the other comments nad yours I regard them a bit more highly now I still dont quite know how to use them effectivley


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
rangers are not a good choice but they're 100% the least bad choice when it comes to eldar troops.

Min size, no upgrades, they fill troop slots fast, provide some utility in the form of a few mortal wounds here and there, and they die really slowly to gunlines. The major thing thats so good about eldar is that they have a solid counter to the two big tournament list archetypes: Reserve alpha strike and chaff filled gunline.

With Alaitoc (our only chapter tactic) we dont die to list 2 and with reapers+farseer we nuke list 1.

Why would they die slowly to gunlines? I can see with a longer range how it takes longer for a standard unit gunline to reach them so they last longer, but outside that they only have a 5+ save. 3+ in cover I know but I rarely find enough cover in the right spot to deploy more than 1 squad of rangers, unless im missing the point.

Similarly I would like to know your thoughts on dire avengers if you dont mind, I am fine with guardian defenders as they are basically a heavy weapon with extra wounds, and some close range firepower for if something gets close. But I have 10 dire avengers so far (not much I know) and I have yet to have them be cost effective, they usually die after the first turn they shoot so i end up trading quite badly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/24 15:12:32


 
   
Made in us
Liberated Grot Land Raida




jj5437 wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think in a tournament setting, Rangers are basically used to keep the enemy at bay.
Three small Ranger units could do this. They give you a Bataillon and so 3 CPs. That’s it.


You say to keep them at bay but in my experience so far, (Admittedly very little so theres plenty I dont know) theres no incentive against rushing towards rangers? and the rangers cant fire through my own troops so they dont really provide backup. Although from the other comments nad yours I regard them a bit more highly now I still dont quite know how to use them effectivley


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
rangers are not a good choice but they're 100% the least bad choice when it comes to eldar troops.

Min size, no upgrades, they fill troop slots fast, provide some utility in the form of a few mortal wounds here and there, and they die really slowly to gunlines. The major thing thats so good about eldar is that they have a solid counter to the two big tournament list archetypes: Reserve alpha strike and chaff filled gunline.

With Alaitoc (our only chapter tactic) we dont die to list 2 and with reapers+farseer we nuke list 1.

Why would they die slowly to gunlines? I can see with a longer range how it takes longer for a standard unit gunline to reach them so they last longer, but outside that they only have a 5+ save. 3+ in cover I know but I rarely find enough cover in the right spot to deploy more than 1 squad of rangers, unless im missing the point.

Similarly I would like to know your thoughts on dire avengers if you dont mind, I am fine with guardian defenders as they are basically a heavy weapon with extra wounds, and some close range firepower for if something gets close. But I have 10 dire avengers so far (not much I know) and I have yet to have them be cost effective, they usually die after the first turn they shoot so i end up trading quite badly.


...Because they're 12 point models with -2 to hit outside 12", and a 3+ save in cover? There ain't much that's more durable for the points against a gunline than that... if there's not enough cover to deploy three squads of rangers, there's not enough cover on the map, period.

Dire Avengers are good because they're the only other troop choice you can take minimum sized and be reasonably sure they'll do OK. there are certainly worse ways to fill 5 slots in a wave serpent.The only problem I have with regular guardians is you really want to use large squads with CPs (like webway portal primiarily) to get use out of them. Storms have always been trash.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Rangers can infiltrate and so can be set up such that an alpha strike by the enemy can be prevented. At least, the enemy could charge the Rangers but not the more valuable units.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




the_scotsman wrote:

Storms have always been trash.


I don't know. With flamers their overwatch can be quite deadly and unlike Defenders or Rangers they actually have a chance of fighting back in combat. It's counter intuitive but it makes them ok in a defensive role.

I also work out that point for point Storm Guardians shooting and charging do more damage on average than Banshees or Scorpions (though lose out from not having the same speed or deployment tricks of the aspects).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/24 19:17:41


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Been playing with 3 units of 5 for quite some time at this point. A unit with -2 to hit, a 3+ save in cover, the chance to only be hit on a 6+, and the ability to block reserved alpha strike is all very potent.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Been playing with 3 units of 5 for quite some time at this point. A unit with -2 to hit, a 3+ save in cover, the chance to only be hit on a 6+, and the ability to block reserved alpha strike is all very potent.

And they are good and cheap objective campers in the backfield.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in id
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor






I wish they come in plastic. I've been waiting for ages.

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Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Pellegrino wrote:
I wish they come in plastic. I've been waiting for ages.

Not sure if GW cares. But they should do since Eldar is still a well bought army and Rangers are better than ever with Alaitoc.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Typing this on my phone. So forgive me. Here is a run downnto our troops:

Rangers: crap damage. However they are very during, cheap, and they have a great alternate deeply. They do a great job protecting your whole army as the rangers can force deep strikers to come on further away.

Dire averengers: not very duribly and not very kill. They are a decent anti horde option. That's about it...

Guardian defenders: not cheap as far as fishing for CP but damage wise the most cost effective option. They are just as durable as a squad of dire avengers in the open. They are more durable than fire avengers in cover. They are really the most cost effective troop choice, but you usually want some support to get them in range like a seepent.

Storm guardians: weird... They probably could be good but they need too much support and even then probably don't preform well enough.
   
Made in id
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor






 wuestenfux wrote:
 Pellegrino wrote:
I wish they come in plastic. I've been waiting for ages.

Not sure if GW cares. But they should do since Eldar is still a well bought army and Rangers are better than ever with Alaitoc.


Yep and they should make Dark reapers in plastics. Not if GW cares lol.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





UK

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Been playing with 3 units of 5 for quite some time at this point. A unit with -2 to hit, a 3+ save in cover, the chance to only be hit on a 6+, and the ability to block reserved alpha strike is all very potent.

Yup, I never seem to roll 6s for them but they still contribute to the battle by blocking alpha strikes. If my opponents teleports in, I would rather he charge/rapid fires a 60-point Ranger squad than my Reapers or Fire Prisms. Eldar excel at short-ranged firepower so if my opponent mulches a cheap Ranger squad, there will be plenty nearby to kill the exposed deep strikers.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Yeah from a damage output stand point I think I may have put 1 wound on Bobby G and maybe popped a wound or two off a tank but honestly that's a secondary concern for me.

My entire goal for that 180 point investment is to prevent terminator bombs, berzerker bombs, blood angels rocket punch, etc. from being in range of anything valuable. As long as they can block the alpha strike they did everything I needed them to do. If one of my 3 units survives for the length of a game to score an objective - that's gravy.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Pretty much. They bubble wrap and deny tablespace to deep strikers and infiltrators, and eat any first turn charges. If your opponent doesn’t have any of that they can camp an objective.
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Massachusetts

 wuestenfux wrote:
Rangers can infiltrate and so can be set up such that an alpha strike by the enemy can be prevented. At least, the enemy could charge the Rangers but not the more valuable units.


They don't get the good infiltrate anymore though. I'm not complaining about their psuedo-deep strike ability, but I'd love it if they could infiltrate like marine scouts.

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Made in us
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine





Walnut Creek, CA

mmimzie wrote:

Dire averengers: not very duribly and not very kill. They are a decent anti horde option. That's about it.


Dire avengers are super good when you run Asurman along side them. The 4++ makes them very resilient and overwatch on a 5+ makes them excellent at bubble wrapping.

I don't play Craftworlds Eldar, but from the outside looking in rangers are the cheapest sniper unit in the game. Snipers are scary to play against. They bring an ineffable quality to your modify your opponents psyche. My scouts with snipers generally draw a lot of fire turn 1 because I've positioned them to snipe out characters. This is really good against astra militarum's commissars, chaos psykers, and tyranid synapse characters.

Rangers win and lose during the deployment phase. I'd say of your not having success with them, your likely not deploying them to their strengths. Also, as said earlier, if there isn't enough terrain to hide 3 squads of rangers, there's not enough terrain. You don't necessarily need more, maybe just define the terrain differently with your opponent. I recommend using the ruins rules as they're the most lenient for cover.
   
Made in us
Walking Dead Wraithlord





Dallas area, TX

The other nice thing about Rangers is that they do not require a transport or to use CPs to deploy to reach their full potential. Avengers and Guardians do need either a Serpent or to Webway Strike in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/29 22:06:45


   
 
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