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2017/12/28 17:16:19
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Fresh-Faced New User
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As you know, FW has released a razorback and LR Redeemer with a TWIN psycannon for GK instead of the regular twin assault cannon. Also, GK codex has a stratagem that increase the killing potential of his mind bullet weapons, psychic onslaught. My problem is, the stratagem triggers with any gatling psilencers, heavy psycannons, psilencers and psycannons, but no TWIN psycannons. RAW, it means for me i cant use it with these vehicles, and honestly they seem useless without it, the psycannon alone its worse than an assault cannon. Anybody knows if RAI it allows the use of the stratagem on the twin psycannon?
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2017/12/28 17:41:23
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
In My Lab
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Keywords for weapons would be nice.
RAW, no, this does not work, since it specifically calls out the listed weapons, with Twin Psycannon not being one of them.
HIWPI is that yes, that'd be fine to use. Talk to your TO and/or opponents about it.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2017/12/28 18:18:04
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Gargantuan Gargant
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"The Strength and Armour Penetration characteristics of any gatling psilencers, heavy psycannons, psilencers and psycannons that unit fires are improved by 1 this phase."
"Twin psycannon" is not on the list, so the stratagem doesn't work, end of story. "RaI" is meaningless and not worth discussing in any situation.
You are, of course, free to house-rule it however you want, but then it stops being a rules question and is just a slippery slope to nonsense.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/28 18:19:06
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- |
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2017/12/28 22:46:38
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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RAI is the only way some of the rules work and *not* meaningless to discuss in many situations, sigh.
I agree with JNAProductions' take.
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2017/12/29 05:02:02
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Pretty sure a Twin Psycannon is just 2 Psycannons........
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2017/12/29 06:50:09
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Fixture of Dakka
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 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Twin psycannon" is not on the list, so the stratagem doesn't work, end of story. " RaI" is meaningless and not worth discussing in any situation.
Seeing game doesn't work without considering RAI yes it's worth. Especially if oyu want to house rule game to something that a) actually works b) something that makes even mediocre sense.
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2017/12/29 16:45:50
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Gargantuan Gargant
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The rules don't say it it. The same way that a "Hurricane Bolter" isn't treated as 6 Bolters by the rules.
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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- |
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2017/12/29 17:25:32
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Furious Fire Dragon
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BaconCatBug wrote:The rules don't say it it. The same way that a "Hurricane Bolter" isn't treated as 6 Bolters by the rules.
As Bacon properly points wording it's important specially on this edition.
Quick example Blazing star of Vaul FAQ states wich weapons get the advantage , shuriken pistol or Twin shuriken catapult.
The original rule just mention shuriken pistol or shuriken catapult.
So i'm pretty sure the wording of the rules (leaving Twin Psycannon out ) not consider it as a choice for the stratagem
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2017/12/29 19:28:16
Subject: Vortimer pattern vehicles and psychic onslaught stratagem
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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GW doesn't, as a rule, consider FW things for inclusion in their (GW's) rules.
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