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Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

Two ideas, let me know how they look and what potential problems they could raise.

ONE
Spoiler:

In matched play, if you have any Troops choices, you may only have n+1 HQ choices compared to Troops choices. For example, if you have 4 Troops, you may have a maximum of 5 HQs.


TWO
Spoiler:

In matched play, you may not take more CHARACTER units than you have other units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 20:49:27


40k Resources

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1000 1500 3500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator




In My Lab

Option 1 makes the Spearhead, Vanguard, and Outrider detachments literally useless. Want to run Deathwing/Ravenwing? Too bad. Want to run Sisters of Silence, led by an Inquisitor? Too bad. Want to run tanks, tanks, and nothing but tanks? Too bad.

Option 2 I don't like, and don't see as necessary with the new Beta rules. But it doesn't immediately jump out at me as broken.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in au
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Brisbane, Australia

Pre-beta rules I would have said 2 (hell, I implemented the same rule in a tournament I ran). It isn't perfect and Character spam is still a thing with it, but it decreases the abuse a bit.

The beta rule fixes the problem with Character spam much better.

Multiple thin coats are always better than one thick coat.
 
   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

Alright what about the update to #1? IF you have Troops, then the restriction applies. You can evade it by taking 0 troops.

And why will the beta Character targeting make Character spam less frequent?

40k Resources

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1000 1500 3500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator




In My Lab

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Alright what about the update to #1? IF you have Troops, then the restriction applies. You can evade it by taking 0 troops.

And why will the beta Character targeting make Character spam less frequent?


Still awful.

It makes it so characters of less than 10 wounds cannot block for other characters.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






If you want a more restrictive force org chart just use the HH ones. They are awesome. I wish 8th used them with Rites of War instead of this totally open madness.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Alright what about the update to #1? IF you have Troops, then the restriction applies. You can evade it by taking 0 troops.


Eh. Still not a fan. Most of the time, this change wouldn't make a difference (I tend to run 1 Batallion and then one extra detachment of some sort OR 3 outrider/vanguard/spearhead type detachments). Those rare times where it would make a difference (say I want to take the minimum requirements for a batallion plus a spearhead of a different faction or something), it would prevent me from playing a reasonable, straight-forward arm just because I happened to want a bunch of shadow seers backing up my harlequins or whatever.

Am I correct in thinking that this is basically just a roundabout way of trying to nerf smite spam or assassin spam or something? I'm not aware of any major multiple HQ problems at the moment that the Beta rules aren't likely to address.
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






I think he might be trying to mitigate tau commanders?

   
Made in us
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran





Mississippi

It seems strange anyone would have more HQ units than troops (too many chiefs, not enough braves). Personally I would have gone for a 2:1 ratio (2 troops minimum per HQ choice).

Why does n+1 HQs break some lists? Sounds like that is an issue with the army.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator




In My Lab

 Stormonu wrote:
It seems strange anyone would have more HQ units than troops (too many chiefs, not enough braves). Personally I would have gone for a 2:1 ratio (2 troops minimum per HQ choice).

Why does n+1 HQs break some lists? Sounds like that is an issue with the army.


Deathwing. Ravenwing. Sisters of Silence. Death Company.

You can build pretty much whole armies around those guys without any troops, they're perfectly fluffy, they're usually not game-breaking, and these restrictions (well, the first one) would feth them over royally.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




I'd much prefer to see restrictions on when you can take a second detachment.
Something like having to take more than just the bare minimum in the first detachment.
As it stands right now, I feel like there's virtually no reason to ever take 3 heavy support (for example) in a battalion. Chuck in a cheap hq and gain another CP. Feels wrong to me.
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





Not needed. In casual play, just agree to not "abuse" (whatever that means) detachments. In competitive play just "abuse" it right back.

All this does is make Tau players even weaker and punishes armies with few troop choices (Like Harlequins or Necrons).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/15 20:10:37


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; and Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect.
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