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Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





1- If a Chapter were diminished down to say, little more than some scouts, an Ancient,the Chapter Master, Chaplain, and some of their wargear- what would be done? Would it be possible for them to be reinforced with Primaris Marines during the Ultima founding?

2- What if this Chapter's history was already mysterious and their Primarch and 'Parent Chapter' was unknown?

3- What would be a good reason for them to have Heresy-Era Relics?
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut




Austria

Hmm. About your first question: Just having a few senior members as well as scouts would be, in my eyes, a little too few to rebuild a chapter on its own. The Astral Knights were reduced to 30 fully fletched Marines as well as a Dreadnought and were subsequently not rebuilt.
I guess you could get some reinforcements through the Ultima Founding, yet I can't help but feel that a few more normal marines would be more appropiate. But overall, nothing to far stretched in my opinion (:

Second question: No problems here, actually quite a few chapters don't know their mother legion, most prominently the Blood Ravens.

Regarding your last question: Good ties with the Mechanicum, being cut of from supply and therefore being forced to using old gear, maybe something alogn the lines of the Consecrators, being given the oldest and most venerable wargear for them to preserve them... Only thing, it would be most logical for a second founding chapter to have a lot of heresy-era stuff and therefore it would be a bit strange for me for them to not know their primarch as these chapters tend to be like, really proud of being the first founded chapters and being able to trace their origins directly to a legion.

Hope that helps

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




1. It depends on a lot, but I can see them getting rebuilt. What happened to cause them to lose so many men? I mean the scythe of the emporer got rebuilt didn't they? I know at one point they were considered a dead chapter but I think I remember they were brought back at some point.
2. Like lum said, not an issue.
3. There could be a lot of reasons. Maybe these relics were why your army was almost wiped out, they were found on an unexplored planet that turned out to have been the sight of a large battle during the HH. Upon finding these relics they were attacked by deamons or maybe some offshoot of the chaos marines that had sided with horus and they were trying to stop your marines from retrieving the relics? That would also give you an arch enemy you could play your history off of.

You could also even say that even though the chapter doesn't remember their beginnings that doesn't mean that Guilliman doesn't recognize them and say "I remember your founding, you guys need some help?"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 19:25:18


 
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

1 - Crimson Fists had a similar issue after their monestary/home base sorta blew itself up. They were able to survive and rebuild. However, There are mentions in old fluff of other decimated chapters being disbanded and the survivors either being used to found a new chapter (generally reserved for a chapter master that survived), or the survivors being divied up to other existing chapters. Strenghtening with Primaris is entirely possible, I believe this happened to the Blood Angels after a devasting tyranid attack.

2 - That would present a political issue more than anything else. It may slow or affect the sort of recruits they recieve. More than anything, any enemies they may have made of inquisitors, other chapters or the like within the imperium may use it to rearrange or possibly disband the chapter.

3 - Another option besides the ones posted is that those relics may have been a few sacred objects they saved from whatever decimated them in the first place. With no place to safely store them, they may be some of the only equipment they have on-hand to use.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 Lum wrote:
Hmm. About your first question: Just having a few senior members as well as scouts would be, in my eyes, a little too few to rebuild a chapter on its own...I guess you could get some reinforcements through the Ultima Founding, yet I can't help but feel that a few more normal marines would be more appropiate. But overall, nothing to far stretched in my opinion (:


Kind of what I was going for. I use quite a bit of the Primaris stuff. I was going for an Ultima Founding reinforcement. Perhaps giving a valid reason why they aren't being dissolved- perhaps distinguishing themselves and demonstrating great acts of valor in battle. In other words, "Hey, these guys are putting in some work and kicking ass, it'd be a shame to let their traditions just fade away".

Azuza001 wrote:
You could also even say that even though the chapter doesn't remember their beginnings that doesn't mean that Guilliman doesn't recognize them and say "I remember your founding, you guys need some help?"


I like that. I was even thinking that their willingness to fight on and stay resilient came to the attention of Bobby G and despite their old heritage, they were 'renamed' and formed into a new chapter.

 Stormonu wrote:
2 - That would present a political issue more than anything else. It may slow or affect the sort of recruits they recieve. More than anything, any enemies they may have made of inquisitors, other chapters or the like within the imperium may use it to rearrange or possibly disband the chapter.


As of now, the Chapter takes what they can get from a variety of worlds, as they come across suitable recruits. I'm probably going to use this to make some unique Lieutenants, Sergeants, Captains, etc.

The Inquisition hasn't really crossed them, and vice-versa. They're loyal, mostly abide by the Codex Astartes (seeing it as a 'decent guideline', but not an all-encompassing doctrinal manual). They're loyal, and show proper respect to their cousins and revere all the Loyalist Primarchs equally (I guess not knowing who daddy is, means you just love ALL the Space Daddies).

 Stormonu wrote:
3 - Another option besides the ones posted is that those relics may have been a few sacred objects they saved from whatever decimated them in the first place. With no place to safely store them, they may be some of the only equipment they have on-hand to use.


I like this. Perhaps finding ancient stores that belonged to one of the Legions, but which one is unclear- maybe a general Mechanicus depot, without it being assigned to any Legion at all? I'm slipping in things like Tartaros and Catty Terminators, Sicarans, Javelin Speeders (as standard speeders) and Outrider bikes (as standard bikers). What can I say, I'm a guy who likes Heresy-Era goodies but I want them on the 40k table.
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





CO

I believe dead chapters were also re-founded during the Ultima Founding, so you could go that route as well.

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Made in se
Member of the Malleus





I'm going to shamelessly throw in that I just bumped up the "homebrew lore ideas" thread in the background section. If you want ideas for homebrew lore or want others opinion on yours then it's a great thread to check out. But wait there's more!
...Or not really, I just wanted to complete the commercial bit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/04 18:04:37


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Whatever happens is whatever you want to happen to your chapter. Some have been rebuilt from a few men, some rebuilt from literally nothing but geneseed on file and some have been allowed to disband. You can have your own chapter rebuilt from a few guys if you like.

If your question is based on what models you have to play with then do whatever you want. If you have a bunch of scouts and a dread then make them the focus of your army. Use the dread a venerable dread or something, have tons of scouts in your army. Instead of being the basic bitch starting marine your scouts could become a specialised company like those of the DA or those following that UM scout captain guy (is it Telemon?) Have scouts be your main force and have the chapter use stealth tactics primarily. Bring in Primaris as reinforcements if you want to invest in new models. Or just stick with scouts if you like them.

Or you could run with the idea that the chapter is cut off from reinforcement and is literally a band of desperado survivors. Maybe they stubbornly cling to their old chapter rites despite Terra having officially disbanded them due to their apparent destruction? They just refuse to be disbanded or be absorbed by another chapter.

Do whatever you want due, it's your army.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




I think you can easily get around the first issue by saying the Primaris were already on their way, kitted out in the Chapter's colours, before the Chapter were decimated. Or at least before the Imperium found out, which with warp storms and such could be centuries if you need it to be!

2 makes 1 a bit more difficult though. If they don't know what Primarch the chapter are seeded from, how do they know which Primaris to send? That said, you can play up the crazily complicated nature of Imperial bureaucracy by saying the according to imperial records they're Ultramarine successors or whatever, but actually the records are wrong or were changed, and maybe your chapter master suspects that to be the case for whatever reason. OR, maybe the Cawl does know the true Primarch of the chapter, they just for whatever reason don't want everyone else to know. If it's a traitor Primarch, maybe he's even keeping it secret from Guilliman.

Relics are easy. Most first founding chapters have a ton of Heresy era tech still, Dark Angels especially. Even if your patent chapter is lost to time, you could still have inherited Heresy tech and just have it lost in the mists of time exactly where it came for. Though maybe insignia on the tech is what is giving your chapter higher ups hints that their parentage isn't what it seems, if that's the way you want to go!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/07 15:41:16


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
1- If a Chapter were diminished down to say, little more than some scouts, an Ancient,the Chapter Master, Chaplain, and some of their wargear- what would be done? Would it be possible for them to be reinforced with Primaris Marines during the Ultima founding?

2- What if this Chapter's history was already mysterious and their Primarch and 'Parent Chapter' was unknown?

3- What would be a good reason for them to have Heresy-Era Relics?


1) Sure. It's another chapter that the imperial propaganda can say was rescued by the Primarch and his crusade.

2) They're probably Ultramarine successors. So maybe the new guys just get that geneseed. Or if you read Dark Imperium you know Cawl has already made stable marines using the 11 forbidden gene seeds (the 9 heretics and the 2 unknowns) and maybe whichever over those hapepend to match any testing got sent to your chapter. Cawl is a big heretic after all.

3) Well, if heretical tech priests are going to give you mysterious geneseed they might have a bunch of other tech they want you to test out as well. Or since the chapter got struck such a severe blow, the remaining members decided to open up the vaults of relics as it was finally time to stop treating them as religious artifacts and start using them as weapons.
   
 
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