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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I want to preface by mentioning I have returned to miniatures after close to a 15 year hiatus. I have stripped, based and shaded my khorne berzerker and was fairly happy with the results. Where I hit a wall was with applying the layer paints to the models. I am using the citadel recommended colors Khorne Red (Base)
Carroburg Crimson (Shade)
Wazdakka Red (Layer)
Wild Rider Red (Layer)

I am using a DIY wet palete as well, and the process i was attempting (and failed at) was from a video i saw where the discussed taking the layer paint and starting the brush where you want less pigment and moving the brush to where you want the most pigment. Ultimately this process did not work and there is a hard line where the Wazdakka red was applied. Based on this information I have a few questions

1. Can the models in the pictures below be rescued or should rebase with Khorne red and start over?
2. What would be a good way to try and get a transition from the darker Khrone red to Wazdaka red? Would shading over the Wazdaka fix the hard transition, or would the correct way be to mix wazdaka with Khorne red?
3. When using a wet pallet is that in it self suitable for thinning paint or should water be added to the paint in addition to what it pulls from the pallet?
4. Any other advise on where i went wrong would be appreciated.





   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune






lordofchance wrote:
I want to preface by mentioning I have returned to miniatures after close to a 15 year hiatus. I have stripped, based and shaded my khorne berzerker and was fairly happy with the results. Where I hit a wall was with applying the layer paints to the models. I am using the citadel recommended colors Khorne Red (Base)
Carroburg Crimson (Shade)
Wazdakka Red (Layer)
Wild Rider Red (Layer)

First off, welcome back

I am using a DIY wet palete as well, and the process i was attempting (and failed at) was from a video i saw where the discussed taking the layer paint and starting the brush where you want less pigment and moving the brush to where you want the most pigment. Ultimately this process did not work and there is a hard line where the Wazdakka red was applied. Based on this information I have a few questions

This technique relies on the paint being just the right consistency, so don't feel bad that it hasn't worked. You're on the right lines, and it'll come with practise.

I suggest you try with a few different consistencies of paint – perhaps on some spare shoulder pads, as they're a good simple curve to practise upon. Start with very watery paint, and work to virtually undiluted to see the different effects. You'll find a happy medium, and learn to recognise the right consistency. Try to cover just the top two thirds of each pad area.

Once you've done that, try repeating the process on the same pads, this time covering just half of the area you did before. This application of paint will overlay and smooth the underlying colour, and you'll quickly get the hang of which consistency to apply on the base coat, and which to apply on the layer.

1. Can the models in the pictures below be rescued or should rebase with Khorne red and start over?

Absolutely. I'd suggest mixing Carroburg Crimson and Khorne Red in equal proportions, and painting this mix over the 'edge' at the bottom of each area. This is the root of layered blending.

2. What would be a good way to try and get a transition from the darker Khrone red to Wazdaka red? Would shading over the Wazdaka fix the hard transition, or would the correct way be to mix wazdaka with Khorne red?

Both could work, but will depend both on the consistency you use and the way you apply the paint (i.e. how you physically move the brush to deposit the paint). My suggestion would be that mixing Wazdakka Red and Khorne Red will give you more control.

3. When using a wet pallet is that in it self suitable for thinning paint or should water be added to the paint in addition to what it pulls from the pallet

Again, it varies, depending on lots of things. A wet palette's primary use is to extend the working life of the paint – as water evaporates, it is replaced. This is waht makes it very useful when creating mixes. It will also slightly dilute the paint, but that's not the intended use. Generally, you should dilute your paint to the right consistency regardless of the palette you're using, so I'd dilute the paint.

4. Any other advise on where i went wrong would be appreciated.

In truth, I don't think you're really gone wrong – if anything, you've just stopped a bit too soon. Don't be disheartened; just cover the 'edges' with mixes between the two extremes.

If it's helpful, there are a few articles on my blog that may (or may not) prove helpful:
What is glazing?
Painting terminology
Stuff on paint consistency
Tonal work in general

Hope those are useful, and good luck!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 16:27:05


+Death of a Rubricist+
My miniature painting blog.
 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade






Don't be surprised that this didn't create a smooth transition - you are just painting one color directly over the other, after all. There are a lot of ways to smooth out the transition, including glazing with a mixture of the two colors. You certainly don't have to start over if you don't want to, though.

If I'm trying to brush on a transition from one shade or color to another I usually thin my paint with some kind of medium (Vallejo Glaze Medium or GW Lahmian Medium) and then slowly build up very thin layers of paint, starting with one color and then going through a couple of stages of mixture, finally ending with the second pure color. That's the way I try to do it, though. There are a lot of blending techniques including wet blending and loaded brush blending. However, if you just paint one color directly over the other without any kind of blending then you will pretty much always get hard lines like this.

Your models are by no means poorly painted or ruined, you just need to do an extra step or two to bring the two shades together.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




@Apologist Thank you for the detailed response and the links. The information provided was useful. The Carroburg\Khorne mix did indeed help over ride the harsh lines from my first attempt.

@Luciferian Thank you for the information on the thinning medium. This sounds like something I will need to look into further if I want to avoid the edge only highlighting I have seen in a lot of how to videos.

Starting with a first layer of 50:50 (my best guess) Khrone Red and Wazdakka red seemed for help make the transition less harsh. The thining of the paint with water is something I still feel i need to get the hang of. Some of the transitions between colors were smoother then others, Here are some updated pictures of a few models after a layer of 50:50 mix and a layer of straight Wazdakka. Any additional advise or criticism is appreciated as it will only help me to improve.





   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade






It's already looking much better. I think you can see now how this type of blending is really just putting down many thin layers with subtle gradation in shade from one end to the other. It's not too difficult but it does take a lot of time. However, the end result will look very nice.

At this point what you are doing is pretty close to glazing, so any tutorials you come across for that will probably help. I will say that contrary to the technique that you spoke of in your OP where you drag the pigment to where you want it to be strongest, you can also just put additional, smaller layers on where you want it to be strongest. Think of a shoulder pad as a shooting target, for example, with a series of concentric circles inside each other. If you paint each circle on top of the last, your biggest circle would have the least pigment density, and then each inner circle would have progressively more. Throw in a progressive mix from one color or shade to another and you can make some really nice transitions. Not many people paint whole armies that way though, because it's pretty time consuming.

My one tip for this style of painting is to think about the volume of each individual armor segment and where the light would hit it, then concentrate your lighter colors there. For example, the thighs of your berserkers are basically just cylinders, and the light would hit them along their entire length in a pretty uniform manner. Instead of a shooting target it's a series of narrower and narrower rectangles. Their greaves and gauntlets are basically cones, so same as the cylinder but trapezoids instead of rectangles. Helmets, feet and shoulders are all kind of semi-spheres, thus the shooting target idea, with the "center" concentrated at the point closest to the light source. That breaks things up and makes planning where to put your paint less daunting. Cones and cylinders you can paint in straight lines from one end to the other and spheres just get circles or semi-circles. Don't worry so much about where you're depositing your paint unless you're doing something to create contrast like edge highlighting or selectively laying down a wash or ink.

Personally, I bought an airbrush and now I can do the same thing in a few minutes

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Luciferian wrote:
It's already looking much better. I think you can see now how this type of blending is really just putting down many thin layers with subtle gradation in shade from one end to the other. It's not too difficult but it does take a lot of time. However, the end result will look very nice.

My one tip for this style of painting is to think about the volume of each individual armor segment and where the light would hit it, then concentrate your lighter colors there. For example, the thighs of your berserkers are basically just cylinders, and the light would hit them along their entire length in a pretty uniform manner. Instead of a shooting target it's a series of narrower and narrower rectangles. Their greaves and gauntlets are basically cones, so same as the cylinder but trapezoids instead of rectangles. Helmets, feet and shoulders are all kind of semi-spheres, thus the shooting target idea, with the "center" concentrated at the point closest to the light source. That breaks things up and makes planning where to put your paint less daunting. Cones and cylinders you can paint in straight lines from one end to the other and spheres just get circles or semi-circles. Don't worry so much about where you're depositing your paint unless you're doing something to create contrast like edge highlighting or selectively laying down a wash or ink.



Thanks for the follow up and I will try to keep the shape in mind for future models. One thing I was trying to do is shine a desk light on the models not see where there were more natural highlights i could follow. There is still a lot I need to experiment but the tips received I help me round things out even more. I reached a point where I feel I have completed the reds for now and just hope not to screw it up when I start the metallic. Below is where I ended up with the reds after trying to layer up from darker to lighter gradually. The model in the center of the bottom photo i feel turned out the best and is my goal to work towards as a standard for now. Also, I have read a lot of great things about air brushes, but I figure Ill try to spend my money on some more models and get use to basics again before I invest heavily into an air brush set. Wife might kill me if I go all in like that.





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/06 05:31:14


 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade






They're progressing nicely. Keep it up and you'll be painting things far above a typical table top standard.

 
   
 
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