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I will most likely get a few of these boxes eventually but want to know which is good to start with. Anyone used either of these can tell me which you prefer?

"Die and be free of pain, or live and fight your sorrow" -Auron, FFX 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Eastern Ontario

Honestly I think it comes down to preference. Both are good 'centrepiece' models (though the Doomsday Ark can claim to be a bit more imposing in that regard) which are nifty but not overly essential for your army.

Gameplay-wise, the vehicle I find myself having fallen in love with are Annihilation Barges. They're so shooty.

I have two Ghost Arks and one Doomsday and find that they're fun, but rarely ever super-efficient at anything. I tend not to use my Ghost Arks as transports so much as big, tough buffs to the reanimation rolls for Warrior blobs.

I will say though these models are a royal PITA when it comes to assembly/painting.
Hope your chosen colours are simpler than mine.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 22:06:42


Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
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Yeah I've heard from another necron player that he just fields two ghost arks behind his mobs and it helps with the reanimation. I don't have my index on hand, does the doomsday give the same benefits to the reanimation rolls?

"Die and be free of pain, or live and fight your sorrow" -Auron, FFX 
   
Made in no
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





There are good videos on magnetizing the kit if you're into that. I have three kits myself that are magnetized, rarely used the GA in 8th so far

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I'm trying to set up my army to field a lot of infantry with support that buffs the reanimation protocols so cryteks, overlords, and now the ghost ark/doomsday ark (if the doomsday gives the same buff that is)

"Die and be free of pain, or live and fight your sorrow" -Auron, FFX 
   
Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes





Harlow

Doomsdary Ark fo so. Ghost Arks I'm not a fan in the new edition

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Ghost Arks are decent but just too expensive. For the points you're often better getting more Warriors. The only good thing about them is they can tie units up in close combat.

Doomsday Arks give some ranged ant-tank and are durable enough to possibly not die in one turn.

It's probably worth mentioning that there are some rumours floating around that Necrons may be getting an update in the medium-term (backed up by the lack of points updates in Chapter Approved). So maybe one of each to start wouldn't be a bad idea. I like having as many different units available to me as possible so when a new Codex comes out or the meta shifts I can easily adapt.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Eastern Ontario

torblind wrote:
There are good videos on magnetizing the kit if you're into that. I have three kits myself that are magnetized, rarely used the GA in 8th so far


Granted I was a novice at magnetization when I assembled my kits, so I never bothered to try.
...but magnetizing those things sounds like a nightmare. At least, to the extent I would want to - making sure all the Warrior "occupants" fit into the GA, etc...

 Ultima Bahamut 93 wrote:
Yeah I've heard from another necron player that he just fields two ghost arks behind his mobs and it helps with the reanimation. I don't have my index on hand, does the doomsday give the same benefits to the reanimation rolls?


This is what I use 1-2 Ghost Arks for; honestly I think that's the best use of them (the fact that they can transport 10 Warriors is...fine? but I think a huge blob of 20 that's harder to kill because of the Ark is better).

The Doomsday Ark does not give any benefit to other units. It's just a big, dumb gun.
That said it's a pretty cool big, dumb gun. I think having 1 of them on-hand to try now and again would be worth it at some point for you.

From the sounds of it, though, the type of army you want to field will benefit most from the GA first. I'd go with that and as many Annihilation Barges as you can manage before getting around to the DA.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in no
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





 Kawauso wrote:
torblind wrote:
There are good videos on magnetizing the kit if you're into that. I have three kits myself that are magnetized, rarely used the GA in 8th so far


Granted I was a novice at magnetization when I assembled my kits, so I never bothered to try.
...but magnetizing those things sounds like a nightmare. At least, to the extent I would want to - making sure all the Warrior "occupants" fit into the GA, etc...



It definitely takes an effort, think I have around 80 magnets of different sizes in each. Especially the gauss array each magnets. You can get away with pin heads for 20 of them though. But once you have completed one, the next kit is alot simpler, just need to spend those 4-5 nights it takes.

 Kawauso wrote:

 Ultima Bahamut 93 wrote:
Yeah I've heard from another necron player that he just fields two ghost arks behind his mobs and it helps with the reanimation. I don't have my index on hand, does the doomsday give the same benefits to the reanimation rolls?


This is what I use 1-2 Ghost Arks for; honestly I think that's the best use of them (the fact that they can transport 10 Warriors is...fine? but I think a huge blob of 20 that's harder to kill because of the Ark is better).

The Doomsday Ark does not give any benefit to other units. It's just a big, dumb gun.
That said it's a pretty cool big, dumb gun. I think having 1 of them on-hand to try now and again would be worth it at some point for you.

From the sounds of it, though, the type of army you want to field will benefit most from the GA first. I'd go with that and as many Annihilation Barges as you can manage before getting around to the DA.


Wouldn't tesla immortals almost always be better point for point almost for any use, except movement? (where you can compensate with tomb blades or scarabs or wraiths which you likely have anyway)

Math hammering against most toughensses (and ofcourse saves, being AP- both of them), 8 immortals seem to outperform the annibarge. RP also lets it grow back more the same or more wounds each turn compared to the anni barge. Once you take MWBD into account the comparison is just ridiculous.

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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Eastern Ontario

torblind wrote:


It definitely takes an effort, think I have around 80 magnets of different sizes in each. Especially the gauss array each magnets. You can get away with pin heads for 20 of them though. But once you have completed one, the next kit is alot simpler, just need to spend those 4-5 nights it takes.



Yeah that just sounds like a nightmare to me...and I'm no stranger at this point to extensive magnetization for certain units. But in that case, I'd rather just build separate kits. I don't think I've ever want to field 3 Doomsdays that badly.

torblind wrote:

Wouldn't tesla immortals almost always be better point for point almost for any use, except movement? (where you can compensate with tomb blades or scarabs or wraiths which you likely have anyway)

Math hammering against most toughensses (and ofcourse saves, being AP- both of them), 8 immortals seem to outperform the annibarge. RP also lets it grow back more the same or more wounds each turn compared to the anni barge. Once you take MWBD into account the comparison is just ridiculous.


I mean, maybe? You're talking to the wrong person here, honestly. While math-hammer factors somewhat into my list-building I also like to play with units that I just enjoy - when I get to play at all these days, that is (which is seldom). I've been using power level rather than points for 8th, anyhow.

Is that accounting for the added toughness of the Barge vs. 8x Immortals, and the increased strength on its destructor vs. the carbines?

Seems like between that and the movement and unit footprints and interactions with rules like MWBD and differences like RP vs. Quantum Shielding, etc. it really turns into an apples and oranges kind of comparison.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/04 15:16:58


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The damage output takes strength into account, 8 tesla immortals have consistent higher damage output for all targets, you can click the link in my signature and punch the stats to confirm. www.dice-hammer.com .

Survivability , T4 / 3+ vs T6 / 4+

Immortals get cover easily, Anni needs 50% coverage.

Immortals have no quantum shielding, but they will only ever suffer one damage regardless of DMG output.

However, immortals will perhaps be picked of more easily, they may leave the annibarge alone, who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you beef it up to ten tesla immortals which is how you'd play them, with MWBD they now shoot 20 shots S5, scoring 30 hits, killing (not just wounding) 13 guardsmen or genestealers or 17 ork boys.

The annibarge kills (by comparison) a measly 3 of said models. Albeit clocking in 40 points cheaper. (Which does not make up for it)

The speed is what it has going for it. If you lack speed and some hoard control in the rest of your army, then it might have a place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even without MWBD they still score 9 and 11 kills above, thrice that of the annibarge


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the fun-factor is something it definitely has going for it. Regardless of how the dice gods favor it, I love the model and want it to have a sweet spot in the necron army.

A highlight of mine from 7th was getting the annibarge at a skyfire Nexus and blasting flyrants out of the sky. Everyone can see it's a big a** AA gun, right? It was pure awesomeness.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/04 17:53:10


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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Eastern Ontario

While you make a number of valid points, I don't think it's especially fair of your comparison to account for MWBD on the Immortals' damage output without taking the costs of the lord into consideration in your cost comparison.

Otherwise, good points.

And yes, my favourite thing about the Barge is that it's basically a grav platform for an AA gun...that shoots lightning.
...and also crisps up ground units just as well.

I love them.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
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I agree, but in 29 cases out of 30 you will have MWBD to throw around. And tesla immortals will likely be one of the best targets for it.

If you go annibarge instead, just know what level of horde control you should aim to make up for, is what I'm getting at. For example include a DDA for all the gauss shots, or put tesla cannons on your TArk instead of gauss cannons.

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They're different vehicles, do different things. Like comparing a rhino and a predator.
   
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As mentioned above, build a couple of magnetized variants, that will save you money and time. I'm sure that both of these units will see some changes (or points drops) in the codex.


As for the A barges...
How does the A barge only kill 3 orcs, guard or genestealers? 11 shots, 11 hits, 7-8 wounds against T4 and 9-10 wounds against T3 (not considering saves).

Comparing the cost to a 10 Immortals and a OL you can take 2 A barges. The A barges also have the speed advantage and can fly.

As for how much damage they can take the Immortals are clearly better when they are in cover. The biggest attractor for Immortals is that they are a troop choice. That they can be buffed and have RP is just icing on the cake.

The problem with A barges is that they are anti infantry and so are most things in the Necron Army. So filling up the heavy slots with anti infantry is not the best idea.
   
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I forgot the underslung cannon, add one more kill for that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correct is 6 models killed with the annibarge, twice what I said.

The corresponding numbers for 8 tesla immortals is 7 and 9 ( before MWBD)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/05 23:49:02


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