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Pretty much exactly what the title says. I know I kept seeing people constantly saying to run all embraces, because it was the only weapon worth the point value. Now that they've seen a 2 and 5 point reduction respectively, are the caress and kiss worth using?

The caress was good before hand, it is just cheaper now. It is more of a meta weapon. The problem was from a min max perspective it was over costed.

The kiss like the death jester do a job... but there are better options for the points.

That's what I had kind of thought looking at them. Like, even with drastically reduced cost, it still seems iffy. Like, sure, d3 damage, but so are any number of cheaper weapons, and that's if it sounds at all of S4 AP -1. Trying to decide on how to kit out the Harlequins I'm picking up. With new points, thinking maybe 4 embraces and 2 caresses per troupe.


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What's wrong with the Death Jester, btw?

Kiss is GREAT against anything with Multi wounds and 4/5++ Invul. Kiss has a role, but its niche role.
Caress are equal "basically" in damage to Embraces with a TM around the Embrace is always more damage and b.c they are cheaper why bother with the other weapon?

Having 3-4 Embraces and 1-2 Caress could in theory is a good idea, a 3/2 combo Embraces/Caress (if you dont play with TM's at all maybe a 2/3 combo of Embraces/Caress).


About Death Jesters:
DJ's dont do their jobs, they are just 1 SC that if you cause a Moral you pick the lost model (never heppens.. like literally never happens even with the -1 to LD) The problem is units either dont have a special weapon (like Daemons or Ork blobs and Tyranids) or they are immune to moral, or have rules to basically ignore it even with -1LD.

His other ability to target characters just doesnt do enough at all, a unit of Rangers for 60pts will ALWAYS do more to characters.

Finally b.c they are characters and has good rules (invul, RC, sniper) they are over costed due to rules bloat. He needs to have better rules like the Assassin, not lower points. The problem with lowering his point cost is that if he is cheap enough to be good, he can be spammed to much.

I'd rather have hind really strong, but cost 90+ points.